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Speaker 3: Hey, everyone. Jeff Risen here with your daily DLP. We're gonna keep with the recent theme that's been going on of wrapping up the post draft. At this time, as promised, we're gonna start breaking down some other NFC North teams. And I got a great guest to do it with, the real Forno, my man, Tyler Fornes, from a to z sports on the real Forno show. Old friend, old colleague, we've known each other for a very long time. Tyler, welcome to Daily DLP. How are you doing, buddy?

Speaker 4: Jeff, I'm doing great. It's great to be here talking football with you, and, another draft is coming gone, and, hopefully, the next one's a little bit more exciting than the one we just had.

Speaker 3: Yeah. This was a little flat. So I know so you, like myself, we we started the bond over NFL draft stuff. And already, like, the excitement within our draft community for 2027 is like, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4: It's the it feels like there's really exciting players, and there's depth that those with those exciting players. This pass draft was just kinda I was just over it in March. I'm just like, can we just get there? Like, I'm not really that excited. And Artie Yeah.

Speaker 3: I think

Speaker 4: go like, going through the quarterbacks, it's like, yeah. There's we still don't know what they'll end up looking like come March, but, man, there's there's some real excitement there.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Just in this draft, you know, the the the best players in the draft were a safety, an off ball linebacker, and offensive tackles. Like, those aren't sizzle positions and a running back. I mean, Jeremiah Love. I don't wanna sell him short. But, you know, your team, like my team, focused on the trenches early on, and that's it's not exactly the the sexiest way to sell a draft.

Speaker 4: No. It's not. But when you get a guy who's built like me but actually athletic and muscular, you can't say no. You just can't.

Speaker 3: So for those of you who don't know Tyler, I'm a big dude. Tyler's a lot bigger than me. Like, he makes me feel small, and I appreciate that. But he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't use it against me, which which is great. Let's get into this Vikings draft. So everybody, except you, won't include you in this, had Dylan Tieneman safety Oregon as the final pick at number 18 for the Minnesota Vikings. And it wound up, he was there and they didn't take him. First off, your astonishment that they didn't take him or were you prepared for that?

Speaker 4: I didn't think they would take him. And that was outside that was outside of my evaluation where I had a high third round grade on him. Like, tippy tippy top third round grade. He ended up forty seventh on my big board. I didn't love the player. I thought he was a very specialized kinda guy where everybody else thought he was this maneuverable chess piece. I didn't see that on film. I saw a guy who would play on the roof and fit the run really well. I didn't love him in coverage. I thought he was awful in the box because running backs would just bowl him over like a bowling pin. And I I I was just off my rocker compared to everybody else. I went back and watched more games. I just never saw it. Plus, from the Vikings' perspective, this is now the second year in a row the consensus has been punked, where everybody thought they were taking a safety. The top three guys in my mock draft tracker, which I tracked industry mock drafts all year, I had, like, 650 of them last year. The top three guys were safeties if you include Jada Baron as, like, a nickel safety, which about half the industry did. This year, Dylan Thieneman dominated the conversation 40.5% of all mock drafts. I collected almost 600 this past year. And in the final four days, 107 mock drafts, 69 of them, nice, were Dylan Beanoin. And it was just oh. It felt like the industry was being a little lazy, which when you do the NFL draft, you can't know intricacies about all 32 teams in-depth. It's just not plausible unless you are doing nothing but this. And even then, you're gonna miss stuff. And And everybody was just like, oh, the Vikings need a safety because of Harrison Smith. Here's Dylan Thieneman in the next white safety. It kinda felt like that a little bit. It did. Whether it be intentional or not, everybody just once Daniel Jeremiah sent him to Minnesota at '20 February 24, I said, this is gonna be the top pick for everybody because everybody's just gonna make all that makes sense. Then he had the good combine. But they never wanted a safety. Brian Flores doesn't prioritize safety like that. What he does is prioritize intelligence and he prioritizes experience. And I think they got that with Jacoby Thomas. Will he be good? Who knows? But they were never gonna invest highly. And what did they do? Their top two targets were the two unicorns in the draft, Kenyan Saddique and Caleb Banks. And Sadique was my guy for about the last three weeks of the process because I'm like, it it just makes too much sense. You have a developmental tight end, and he can be your wide receiver three. Kyler Murray thrives with heavy personnel. Like, you can't you're not gonna find a long term, like, massive difference maker at 18 in this kind of draft. So shoot for the moon. Take the hyper athlete who could be a difference maker, but it's a little riskier. And I think Yeah. He's smart in taking Kayla Banks.

Speaker 3: So there is certainly risk with Banks. This is a guy who broke his foot at the combine in a non contact drill that but to your point, when he was at Florida, when he was healthy and when he was dialed in, guys that size don't move like that. Like, planet theory, man. Like, he he is there are I'm not gonna compare him, like, as a player to Ndamukong Suh, but the blend of instant speed and brute power from Caleb Banks is reminiscent of what we saw here in Detroit with Ndamukong Suh. And so from that standpoint, I do get it. But, you know, your thoughts on Caleb Banks? Also, like, how is the Minnesota fan base reacting to to Caleb Banks being the pick?

Speaker 4: Oh, as you can imagine, Jeff, being a Lions fan, you see and interact with Viking fans on occasion.

Speaker 3: They hated it. They

Speaker 4: they were so pissed. And So good. Honestly, I think it was one of the biggest reasons why we had, the discussion board conversation all last week on Twitter because, oh, he was thirty seventh on the consensus board. You could've just got him in round two. That wasn't the case. And this year, more than any, shows how wonky the consensus board was. You had the Nate Boerker pick at 56 to the Jaguars, and that started the tight end run. Like, it this of all years wasn't one to ignore the consensus board, but maybe take it a little less, for lack of a better term, serious just because of how weird the class was and how teams were prioritizing, like, individual players and how guys were grouped in, like, the same glut. Like, 25 to a 100 was relatively similar.

Speaker 3: It was flat, man. Absolutely.

Speaker 4: I mean, I wish all the pain and suffering in the world on Hari Foson. But it his the consensus for itself, like, it it was it's a piece of the puzzle. But people were using it as the gospel when it came to Caleb Banks. Not even wanting to talk about the film because the first thing they heard, consensus board, three foot injuries. Well, luckily enough for us, we have a vikings fan on Twitter, goes by Skoldock, who's a licensed orthopedic foot and ankle surgeon in the Chicagoland area. So I had him on my live draft stream, and we I asked him a ton of questions about it. So here's the basic synopsis. The Jones fracture was initially injured. They went too conservative with the healing. He re broke it. Had surgery. He should be fine. The metatarsal injury is completely separate and, in theory, not linked at all to the fact that he had the Jones fracture. And it's likely that because he was wearing the track shoes when he broke it, that that was a root cause of it. Now, there's always gonna be concern because he's three hundred and twenty seven pounds that there could be more issues with the foot. But, I mean, anytime you break something, it's gonna be more prone to breaking again. But other than that, it's you're not looking at something that's gonna likely be a continuous issue. This isn't soft tissue. Bones heal pretty well in comparison. So

Speaker 3: Yes, sir.

Speaker 4: If you're comfortable with the medicals, which I I said from the jump of the Vikings were, this is a home run swing on a one two count. This is, I need to get the ball out of the ballpark, and this is the guy I think can do it. Like, Banks, thirty five inch arms, he can throw you around. He understands how to use them on the interior, which can be a huge detriment because you're shooting up really quick. Well, those offensive linemen can shoot with their 32 inch arms and get you first. So he understands that they're gonna play him more at a four I five tech, which is where he played at Florida. Played less than 50 snaps at true nose tackle in his college career, by the way. Yeah. Which I don't think a lot of people realize that when they consider his size. But overall, I I love the idea of what Caleb Banks can be. To me, this is a Bill Belichick selecting Richard Seymour. It it's this same kind of style. Are they identical players? No. But what he Caleb Banks is gonna be asked to do and how he's going to go about it is eerily similar. And you need that kind of player in Brian Flores' system. And Banks could be a difference maker from the jump. It's just all going to be about him staying healthy and trying to figure out how he can get it butt low because he loses a lot of leverage battles and you're just going to have to kind of live with that.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I I I I love the optimism, man. Because, like, there like and I I get it. Like, the upside is like, it just just watch some of Florida, especially from 2024. Like Mhmm. Yeah. It's there.

Speaker 4: That LSU game is bonkers.

Speaker 3: He's he he destroys people quickly. And I can see why why why Brian Flores would like that. I really liked the next pick, both just, like, in general as a prospect, Jake Golday, and also for Minnesota. So the Cincinnati linebacker, I think, was a very good poor man's Jack Campbell. Not not like destitute man, but, like, Jack Campbell's elite. Like, I can see Jake Golday being a very good fit specifically in Minnesota as well, and Brian Flores having you you already brought up. They wanted smart guys. This dude, like, yeah.

Speaker 4: Speaking of Jack Campbell, we gotta fix the, fifth year option stuff. It's it's it's bull that he's not able to get a fifth year option because he plays linebacker and includes edge rushers. We're we're we have the technology to figure out who's off ball and who's on ball. Let's get it fixed. The Lions shouldn't be penalized for that, especially because they were they were bullied at right after the twenty three draft for being so dumb. I was calling them dumb. We were all wrong. Everybody who bullied them was wrong. The Lions were right. They they deserve to be rewarded for that. And Jack Campbell deserves to have a guaranteed, like, 16,000,000 coming his way. But I'll get off my soapbox.

Speaker 3: We'll have an extension done soon. So

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Speaker 4: I find it interesting that you mentioned Campbell with Golday. I never really considered that because when I watch him, I see a guy who's a very untraditional player. I see a guy who's incredibly raw as a middle linebacker, but he's very developed in coverage, and he's very developed as a pass rusher, which is not going to be a fit for a lot of teams. It's perfect for Brian Flores because you can teach a guy who's been an edge rusher to do some of the stacking and shedding as a middle linebacker to be a little bit better with run fits. But he played overhang for 501 snaps the last two years. Overhang. He did. Six four two forty. Like, he's already comfortable in coverage. His instincts need a lot of work from in my opinion. He's just a little slow, and I'm curious once we get him in the NFL, how much of that, Jeff, is gonna be baked in because of all the RPOs and stuff that you face at the college level because he was relatively flat footed until he actually saw a decision being made, versus what he's gonna have to deal with with when it comes to motion and traditional play action, how that's going to link together. But I see him as a long term, like, Eric Wilson replacement, And Wilson will slide over for Blake Cashman next year. He's gonna be the guy that at linebacker that they asked to set edges. He's gonna be the guy that they send on a lot of these cross dogs as a crasher, to get, the other guy looping around because he's so big, and he's got a lot of core strength. Like, I think CJ Allen was the better player available by far. CJ Allen was twenty first on my board, and I would have loved Allen in Minnesota. But he was not as good of a fit for how Brian Flores likes to play defense as Jake Golday. So even though it was, it wasn't the right pick overall based on my board, it's hard to argue the pick for what this defense wants, and Golbe is gonna maximize it.

Speaker 3: His ability and, like, you brought up this this was very much Jack Hamlet coming out of Iowa, and he still gets it from time to time. The flat footedness before he reacts. Mhmm. But that does get better. We can tell you that as Lions fans that, you know, there are still times and instances in coverage where where, you know, Jack is guilty of that. But the just the ability to do all sorts of different things. I I was a big Gold A fan. I I just watching you see, he was his ability to impose himself upon the offense on plays where you wouldn't expect him to be was very impressive.

Speaker 4: It it was really good. The versatility being able to do a little bit of everything was also a massive win for him. And being able to do a little bit of everything is so important for Brian Flores where it's not for everybody else. And he's gonna be in a situation where he doesn't have to play big snaps right away. He can sit back and learn how to be a more traditional player in a non traditional defense because Yeah. He just he just needs to get some of the basics of middle linebacker down a little better. And if I have to teach him that versus all the other difficult stuff he's doing, we're already 10 steps ahead.

Speaker 3: I'm with you on that one. So went back to the defensive line Mhmm. And third round. And this time, you got a real nose tackle. He's smaller than Caleb Banks, but he plays much more of the immovable object in the middle of the line. That's that my guy, Big Citrus, who was one of my guys in this draft, I wrote about him that way, loved his game, loved his attitude, his energy. Dominique Orange in Minnesota. That bugs me, man, as a Lions fan.

Speaker 4: I was on the train where the Vikings didn't need to prioritize nose tackle at all because Yeah. They had in a significantly better defense. They, allowed point six less yards per play without a traditional nose tackle. They actually allowed point one less yards per carry throughout the course of the entire season without a nose tackle and 30 With

Speaker 3: no nose. So they're they're better without that. That's that that makes this pick very interesting.

Speaker 4: It's they were a significantly better defense from '20, in '25 than they were in '24. And I'm I'm very curious to figure out the root cause as to why they wanted to go back to nose tackle and how much of that was a Brian Flores decision versus Quasipo Pimenta saw trading Harrison Phillips as saving money and we can just get by and try to parse out all those little nuances. Because the evolution of the Brian Flores defense has basically been, Hey, I'm just gonna do the best with what I've got, versus trying to figure out what he's actually prioritizing. Sometimes that can be a little difficult. But Orange fits like a glove. He is that it it was awesome. My favorite play of his was the first play against Iowa. He absolutely ate Logan Jones' launch. Yes, sir. And just threw him aside. That's gonna be fun to watch for the next however many years because I was not a fan of Logan Jones.

Speaker 7: I wasn't

Speaker 4: And he's just boring in the best way. You can't move him. He understands how to use leverage. When he absorbs double teams, He, sinks that back leg in and really holds up at the point of attack where you you may prevent him from making the tackle, but you aren't displacing him. And I think, to me, that's more important. You can't move him. In zone, if you get a, like, a a reach block and you've got the back shoulder, you can drive him off the play. But other than that, you aren't moving him. And I I don't think he's got a huge pass rush potential, but I think if you can get, I don't know, fifteen, twenty pressures a year out of him, I think it's a huge win. This is just a really good solid player who's going to be a great two down guy for you for potentially ten years, And I think that's good value in the third round. I would hate a Kaden McDonald in round one because I don't see the added value that you want from a first round pick.

Speaker 3: From a third round I'm not sure what that.

Speaker 4: You got a long term starter, and I think that's a huge win.

Speaker 3: Yeah. The, so just to go to Caden Mcdonald real quick, he was my pick for the Texans in the first round, and I'm much happier that they got him in the second round rather than than using a first round pick on him. Like, it's a position, like, Big Cypress is gonna fall into half a sack every year, maybe get you a handful of pressures. That's not that's not what he's there for.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's if he gets you three sacks, hell yeah. That's just an added bonus. He's gonna solidify that defense, and Brian Flores asked those guys to do a lot of extra dirty work. Jevon Hargrave on his way out was complaining about how they weren't really allowed to be, like, traditional pass rushers. They were just doing dirty work kind of stuff. I think this is just a really nice fit, and he's gonna do a really good job in the role that he's asked to play.

Speaker 3: Got a guy that a lot of Lions fans looked at because we're looking at offensive tackles up and down. And while he might not be a tackle in the NFL, Caleb Tiernan was certainly a guy that lions fans watched a lot of and liked for the general purposes. And where you got him, you got yeah. You gotta be happy with the value at least on Caleb Tiernan.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. 30 pick, surplus on the consensus board. Overall, I think Tiernan is a very good technician and he is a bad mover. It I just don't think he's a very good mover at all laterally, which is where the tackle question marks really come into play. Plus, what is a fourth percentile arm length and a sixth percentile wingspan? Those are

Speaker 3: kind of brutal. Because because he's he he has, like, his body his upper body is he appears to have short legs for his height too, which is very strange.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Very strange build, but very technically sound, very experienced at a high level. They needed a sixth offensive lineman. They needed a swing guy who could be a long term backup to backup both Christian Darras on Brian O'Neil and also kick inside and be that first guy off the bench at guard. With Brando moving to full time center, now you have that guy long term on a relatively decent contract. Like, it's always nice to get upside at certain spots, but with how with 33% of the Vikings offensive line snaps going to backups last year, I like to pick a lot.

Speaker 7: Yeah. I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 3: You talked about Jacoby Thomas a little bit earlier. He was the next pick. How is he fitting in in Brian Flores' defense? Because it it it feels like you like him.

Speaker 4: I haven't watched a ton of film on him yet. So I reached out to a bunch of people and asked, like, what do I need to know about Thomas going into it? And the the number one thing I was told is run fast, hit hard. And to me, it sounds like a point and shoot kinda blitzer, guy who can play a little bit on the roof and kinda crash down. A friend of mine, Luke Bronn, who holds locked on Vikings, called him discount Dylan Thieneman. Yeah. I kind of agree. Like, I don't need to take Thinamon in round one. I could get a a discount version in round three. I think there's some limitations, especially in coverage, but with how the secondary is really asked to do most of their stuff pre snap and not post snap, I think it's playable to have some of those limitations in coverage with how Brian Flores will maneuver around that. I I would have preferred, a couple other guys at that spot. I think Genesis Smith was still available. I thought Bud Clark would be available. He was gone. VJ Payne was the guy I really liked. But, if this was a Brian Flores guy, he's proven that Brian Flores guys do relatively well on the back end, so I'll trust him.

Speaker 7: Let me get you on that.

Speaker 3: Can we talk about the trade for a second? I feel like it's gotten glossed over certainly nationally and even, like, within the NS like, there are a lot of Lions fans that don't realize that there was a trade during the draft Mhmm. That impacts I I think I think it's a fantastic trade for both squads because it felt like Jonathan Grenard was was not gonna be happy, and he's gone now. Can you walk through maybe, like, what led to that and where the the Vikings are at as a whole, after after dealing away their best natural pass rusher, in my opinion?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Dealing away your best off your best defensive player for two third round picks is great process, I gotta tell you.

Speaker 3: Well, you don't have a GM. So

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Brzezinski's been in the building since 1999. So I know. If you're gonna have an interim, I I suppose that's probably the best route to go. And quite frankly, I think he's done a relatively good job to where he might get promoted over being a general manager. He's Okay. He's the best salary cap guy in the league. Just tremendous at maneuvering and figuring that out. But essentially, it boils down to this. Jonathan Gardner thought he had massively outplayed this contract, which is $19,000,000 a year. The Vikings said, well, we like this contract. We want you to play on it. And they allowed him to go explore a trade where he could get an extension, and they pre negotiated with teams to be like, hey. You know, we're comfortable with this kind of return. Now, you can go talk to him. Nobody would give him the deal he wanted. I thought if you get him up to 26 and a half million, which would be a two year $68,000,000 extension, that's Nick Benito money. I think that's perfectly fine. You're not overpaying him. And giving and you got four years a 100,000,000, half of what Willie Anderson Junior gets, and he's gonna give you more than half of Willie Anderson Junior's impact in production, like, 65%. So even there, it's would be considered a value for the Vikings. They don't wanna do that. So they only got two third round picks, 98 and then the Eagles third next year. And based on the transaction wires, it'll actually be the third and not the Jalen Phillips expected compensatory pick, which I think adds just a little bit more value. But

Speaker 3: Little bit.

Speaker 4: It's it's a frustrating one because now the Vikings are gutted at Edge rusher. Because it's not about Dallas Turner stepping up in that role. He's very good. You now have to replace Dallas Turner who played 700 snaps, had over 40 pressures in eight and a half sacks. If you scale that down because he played a bunch extra when Bernard was hurt, 500 snaps, 35 pressures, six sacks. They have nobody who can do that. Nobody. And I think that's the biggest, angle that Lionskins can look at. If Turner or Van Ginkle get hurt, they're doomed. They have nobody nobody ready to step up and play. It's undrafted free agents Beau Richter and Chas Chambliss, who are both good special teamers, but they're not players you want playing on defense. So Yeah. I that to me was the biggest frustrating part. Plus, you didn't get 54. That part stung too. I did hear if the vike the vikings wanted Jeremy Bernard at 49, and if they would've gotten Bernard, they would've then struck the deal with the Eagles to get 54 with some other swaps so they can go back and get Gol Day. So

Speaker 3: Interesting that that that that it played out that way. And just looking at your draft, like, you didn't draft an edge at all. And I thought I thought going in that I actually in my when I wasn't on Gill and Deaneman as the pick at 18, I had edges there. Mhmm. I I thought that was a major need, and now it's it's an even bigger one. And it's correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like that's the the most glaring hole on the roster right now.

Speaker 4: It's that or wide receiver three because right now it's Ty Felton who was a gunner last year. I mean, he was a third round pick, hundred second overall in '25, but he really didn't show much to give you confidence that he was gonna be a guy long term. Overall, those are your two biggest, like, short term needs. Long term, we can have other conversations, but just to play, just to feel comfortable playing 17 games, they need to add a veteran at wide receiver and edge.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Ty Felton, by the way, was, part of the bounty for the Isaac Tieslott trade that the Lions got. We're happy with Isaac Tieslott here.

Speaker 4: Fair enough.

Speaker 3: We like that. Your your day three picks, all these guys are beyond Thomas are, you know, looking at, you know, Max Bradeson, Michigan fans know him well. Fullback, is that something that the the the Vikings are gonna use on their offense more? I I I know Kevin O'Connell has used it in the past, but with with Kyler Murray, that or is he gonna be more of a move tight end type?

Speaker 4: So initially, I went into the draft thinking, hey, the Vikings are probably not gonna replace CJ Ham because Kevin O'Connell like, he comes from the Sean McVay system where you don't use fullbacks. Then I forgot the most important part of why they selected him. They hired Frank Smith to fix their run game, and he loved using Alec Ingold. So

Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah. When when they took him, I'm like, oh, yep. I'm an idiot. I should have seen that coming, but we're so focused on it's O'Connell's offense that Frank Smith kind of got forgotten about by me a little bit, which shame on me, but he's gonna be used more of like a move tight end slash fullback, like a versatile chess piece in the backfield. And he's also probably gonna be, like, a special teams guy because CJ Ham was the special teams captain. So personal protector kind of stuff, all the coverage units. I think it's it's, an interesting pick. It might feel a little high, but with the massive tight end run, maybe fifth round wasn't too high for him because you probably weren't gonna get him later on.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And it is, an indeed. So we'll we'll stick in the backfield real quick. We'll skip over a guy. Demond Claiborne

Speaker 7: Mhmm.

Speaker 3: Running back, Wake Forest. Anything there? Like, I I I didn't I I I'll just be straight. I didn't see it with him.

Speaker 4: I didn't either. And he's gonna be a running back three, which

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Are we sure he has the skill set to be a running back three? Because everybody talks about, oh, four three seven speed, really explosive. He also had a sixty fifth percentile 10 yard split, which I found fascinating that he was so slow out of the blocks, but he had, like, a ninety eighth percentile, 40 yard dash.

Speaker 3: That that shows on film though. Like Yeah. Of it Yeah.

Speaker 4: It's it's weird, but he kinda goes down with a gust of wind. Not great contact balance, but it I to me, I think the Vikings took him as, like, a discount version of Devony Chan to where they can kinda use him in similar ways. Are we sure that he's good enough as a receiver to do that? Are we sure he can pass protect? Are we sure he can be a special teams guy? Which you have to be at running back three. Are we sure about any of that stuff? Because I'm not. And trading a six round pick next year for the ability to move up and go get him. I wanted to punt this running back class and just fix it completely next year because I didn't see a guy outside of, Jeremiah Love, Jarian Price, and Jonah Coleman who could be a long term starter. And I still don't see it with Claiborne, but we'll see what happens once they get into camp. Because if he can't block, he's not making the team, I don't think.

Speaker 3: No block, no rock, baby. Alright. You're so every year, I don't do draft grades. I'm blessed by my my bosses at Real GM that have never made me do it. Instead, I get to pick my favorite pick from every draft class. For the Vikings, it was an easy one. Mhmm. Chuck d, Chuck Charles Demings, defensive back, Stephen f Austin. I love this guy. I'm upset that he's in Minnesota because I wanted him in Detroit. I don't know if you like him that much, but I I like this as a guy who can not necessarily make an early impact, but a guy who long term there there's a potential starter there.

Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. I'm gonna be honest. I think you got a better player in Keith Abney, also in the fifth round. I agree. A 100%.

Speaker 3: I agree. But but I liked I liked Chuck D a lot.

Speaker 4: Oh, me too. Four four one speed, he's got plenty of length, thirty two inch arms, six one, just under two hundred pounds. Traditional boundary corner. But what really struck me was, if you're going to play at the FCS level and you're going to get drafted and be successful in the NFL, you got to show me something on FCS film. And he was dominant at the FCS level. Great ball skills, really good anticipation and feel for when it's coming and be able to attack it at its highest point. I think the fact that he's got experience is gonna be really good for Brian Flores. He does not like to play corners or who don't have a lot of experience, and he's not gonna be in a system that's gonna require a lot of him. Like, it this is a pressure based system. So he's also not gonna play a lot right away. He's gonna get a chance to sit, like, mostly for a year and learn and develop and then be counted on a little more in 2027. I love the fit. I love the player, and I'm just glad that the Vikings finally address corner. I talked about him on my live draft show at 97. Like, this is a guy that I feel comfortable taking. They got him at one sixty three. Big win.

Speaker 7: With you on that one.

Speaker 3: He was he was borderline top 100 for me as well. I I love the upside. But again and you just brought it up. He doesn't have to play right away. I think that's critical for a guy like him who like, you see the potential, but you also see, like, yeah, he there's some work needed here.

Speaker 4: He's jumping up three levels of football, man. That's a lot for anyone to handle. So give him some time. I think he'll be okay.

Speaker 3: Last pick was, Gavin Gearhart, a guy that I didn't study. You know anything about him.

Speaker 4: I went right to the beast because I'm like, I don't know anything about this guy. Athletically, he seems relatively fine. He's very experienced, almost 3,400 snaps in his career at center. I still don't know a ton about him. I haven't been able to within my own, like, breaking down this Vikings class. Haven't been able to watch him in full, but he was Dane's twenty fourth ranked center. He was, like, six hundred and twelfth on the consensus board. I'm just gonna see it as, hey, this is the best center we thought was available, so we're gonna take it as, like, our priority free agent before the draft ends. It's good centered up. They wish they would have had another guy who's a traditional center on the roster or even on the practice squad, but Zeke Correll, who is kind of like a discount version of Garrett Bradbury, also from NC State, broke his ankle in training camp. So they weren't even really able to see what he could bring. Look, they need they wanted a center. They got a center. We'll see if he's any good.

Speaker 3: Alright. Anybody from the UDFA class stand out as a as a chance to contribute as a rookie or even make the team?

Speaker 4: I think the one guy that stands out because last year, there were like three or four, like, okay, I see a real path to making the team. This year, it's a little less. Dylan Bell, the wide receiver from Georgia, in the top 300 on the consensus part. I think he was like two eighty six. When you play wide receiver at Georgia, you don't really get a chance to shine because you play wide receiver at Georgia.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 4: I think that there's ability there.

Speaker 3: You can block. Yeah. You can block a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 4: And you know what? When you play 11 personnel, like the Vikings did 62% of the time last year, it's good to be able to have wide receivers who can block. Plus, there is not depth on that room. So you can find a guy like Dylan Bell, and he could have a shot to make the team and maybe play meaningful snaps right away, which is kinda scary in itself. But, I mean, he played SEC football, so, like, I'm less worried about him than I would be if he played at, like, I don't know, Georgia Southern. The other guy is also from Georgia. Brett Thorson, the punter. Look, the Vikings, to my in my opinion, don't prioritize punting. They prioritize holding, which is why they signed Johnny Hecker. Hecker was Hecker was lauded by a couple of the beat writers when he signed as the best holder in the league. And the only reason why Ryan Wright, who signed a big deal with the Saints this offseason, stayed last year because he lost the punting competition. He won the holding competition.

Speaker 7: And we're live on matchday as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Matchdays deserve Pepsi.

Speaker 4: And I think that's gonna be a big thing for Thorson. If he can show he's a good holder, he's gonna smoke Hecker as a punter. Smoke him. So can you hold him well enough to unseat Johnny Hecker who's on that that veteran contract, exemption? So I don't know. We'll find out.

Speaker 3: That's interesting. I hadn't I'd never put that together that, you know, the holding was such what whatever. Like, that that's what you do. I wanted to shift gears a little bit. Just and I want you to put your general NFL draft and, like, NFL Mhmm. Analyst role on. We talked about this a little bit off the air. The Lions are a good football team.

Speaker 4: Mhmm.

Speaker 3: Can you convince the Detroit Lions fans who are watching this that this is a good football team? Because there's a lot of people who are not buying into that.

Speaker 4: They're a good football team. They're They're gonna be a good football team for a long time. The tough part, I think, for Lions fans on an overall level, and I think you're starting to see it a little bit is now all of your best players have to be paid. And then that's going to make some of those role players the value of those guys is gonna be diminished because they're not gonna be able to afford as many of those guys. They're not gonna be able to take stabs at Marcus Davenport for good money because you're paying a Monroe St. Brown, Jameson Williams, Jared Goff. You're gonna pay Jameer Gibbs and Jack Campbell, Aidan Hutchinson, Pena Sewell. When you have so many high priced guys, it's gonna be harder to find that middle tier. So I can see being worried from that standpoint, but I think, Brad Holmes, Dan Campbell, they have built a really strong foundation in that organization. A lot of really smart people are making personnel decisions. As long as they can keep drafting relatively well, this is a very, very sustainable foundation and prognosis that the Lions have. And I look, we we mentioned it off air too. You guys have been tortured in a way different way than Vikings fans have been tortured. We see see the carrot, have it dangled right in front of our faces, and then it's ripped away and we're we're absolutely sucker punched. You guys never even got to see the carrot until, like, 2022. So Yeah. It's a different kind of torture, so we can sympathize with each other. You're not going back to that anytime soon. There is a baseline level where you are going to be at least competing for a playoff spot every year until Jared Goff is gone. And at that point, hopefully, for your sake, you can find a quarterback that can elevate this team to a whole another level. But this is not a bad football team. It is a football team that has holes. It is not perfect, but it is a good ass football team.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Nine and eight and missing the playoffs is that's that's a pretty good thing. So talking about the quarterbacks real quick. JJ McCarthy, there was talk that he might get traded. I don't know how realistic that was. What's his outlook in Minnesota?

Speaker 4: So it depends on who you talk to. There are some people who are just, like, like, massive JJ McCarthy homers, I think, might be the best way to frame it, Who still believe he's got a real shot to win this competition. I try to stay pretty agnostic with this kind of stuff. I was low on McCarthy coming out. I had him as a mid second round grade, thirty ninth on my board. I thought he was a good player, but there were a lot of variables with his evaluation because a lot of small sample sizes to where we just didn't know. And you only play seven out of fifteen fourth quarters in your final year in college. That raises a big red flag to me. Not that it's a bad thing that your team is so dominant you don't have to play, but you're not being in high leverage situations means it's a harder evaluation. And the limited amount of high leverage situations to me was a problem. And then he gets drafted by the Vikings like, okay, we see the vision. Now, can it play out? It hasn't. He was one of the worst quarterbacks, in totality last year in the NFL. And not being available, which I think is partially his fault, two of those injuries, the high ankle sprain and concussion last year, I blame McCarthy because he wouldn't get out of bounds, he wouldn't get down. He allowed himself to get hit in the open field. You have to protect yourself, and he did a really poor job of that. My personal read on it is O'Connell's done with him, and the tone shift about the quarterback position when Kwasi Dofa Mensah got fired after the senior bowl, they put everything everything on Kwasi, all the blame. So Kevin O'Connell, I think, is gonna wipe the slate clean. I think the Jonathan Gerard trade is a symptom of the fact that they're expecting to pay Kyler Murray after the year because their expectations are really high for him. I think Murray's gonna win the job with ease. I think McCarthy is done, though. And that really sucks because you don't wanna say you're done to a tenth overall quarterback. But he hasn't shown enough to really prove that he deserves to be the starter. He deserves to, be, like, a massive focus of this team long term because everybody will point to Kevin O'Connell's comments from September '24, after McCarthy's injury, where he said, Organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations. And I think that's a perfectly valid thing to bring up. But nobody talked about the second part, where he goes on a nice soliloquy about how Sam Donald needed to leave the Jets and go through a bunch of crap before he was able to really see who he was and take that step forward. And I think McCarthy needs to go on a journey like that to really kind of figure that piece out. Because it's great of a situation as is in Minnesota facilities with, like, your offensive line, your weapons, your offensive coordinator, Kevin O'Connell. It hasn't worked, and I think he needs a change of scenery. I wish it would have worked. Everybody in Minnesota wishes it wouldn't have worked, but it hasn't. And I think they're going to move on, but it's not gonna be until after the 2026 season. Because two of O'Connell's four years, Jeff, three or four starting quarterbacks. It's been brutal. We had to watch Max Brosmer play a game on Christmas day.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And he won.

Speaker 4: It, that that's beside the point. We had to watch it on Christmas.

Speaker 3: I know. I know. It was not a Merry Christmas for us either. Trust me. Being on the business end of that was

Speaker 4: not great.

Speaker 3: No. No. It wasn't. Any last thoughts you got before we let you get out of here and and get back to, like, diving into to tape on Jacoby Thomas among other players?

Speaker 4: Yeah. I I gotta say, this Lions draft is interesting to me. I like the Blake Miller pick a lot. I thought that they would have prioritized somebody a little stronger and more physical at the point of attack, and a little less of, like, he he's the athlete guy. Hyper athlete. Kind of reminds me as a package of what Brian O'Neil is. O'Neil is much more of a technician and not He was one of the guys that I copped him to, actually. Technician, not aggressive. I thought they would want a little bit more of an aggressive Mahler type, but I think they got a really good player. I don't understand the Derek Moore pick. I don't see the upside personally. But Okay. If he can be a six sack a year guy opposite Hayden Hutchinson, I think that's fine, but I don't think he needed to trade up for him. Jimmy Rolder, you're betting on one year, but that one year was really, really, really good. I like the value in round four. Keith Abney is the best pick in this draft. I had him, I I think, at fiftieth overall on my board.

Speaker 3: Tyler, every guest I've had that has talked about the Lions draft loves Keith Abney so much, and you you preach to the course here, baby.

Speaker 4: I don't care that he's short. He plays big. He's aggressive. One of probably the best corner at handling in breaking routes. When you play in a division with Matt LeFlour, Ben Johnson, and Kevin O'Connell as the play callers, what do they love to do? In breakers. Just let Abney attack, attack, attack. Like, I think he's a he's a better version of Amiek Robertson.

Speaker 7: Wow.

Speaker 4: That's that's pretty good to have in your quarterback room. This guy could start day one, and I wouldn't be shocked. Now, he's gonna have an uphill battle with, like, DJ Reed and Terry and Arnold in the room, but it's a guy that you can play meaningful snaps immediately and be impactful. I was shocked in a draft like this, he made it to round five. This is a long term, like, cornerback two. That's a huge win for the Lions in round five.

Speaker 3: You you made a lot of friends there. Thank you, sir.

Speaker 4: Hey. I am nothing if not honest. And

Speaker 3: You are. That's that's one of the reasons why I have you on, and and I appreciate your opinions all the time because you're a street shooter. If you don't like it, you don't like it. If you like it from another team, like it from another team. That's one of the reasons why we're friends, my my guy.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. And, Abney, I hate that he's a lion. Like, that should tell you everything he need to know.

Speaker 3: I like it. I like it. Tell tell people where they can find your work if they wanna get on and and read more about, the Vikings. But, also, like, you do do NFL draft, like, full time and NFL full time. So, tell people where they can get your stuff at.

Speaker 4: Yeah. The more they add to my plate, the less my wife, I think, likes me as a person. But that's,

Speaker 3: I can I can relate to that?

Speaker 4: You can find me on Twitter at therealfornos. You can see on the screen here if you're watching on video. I am the Vikings and Florida Gators beat rider for a to z sports, and I do NFL draft content as well. Plus, I host the Real Forno show on Vikings first in school, both on YouTube and on podcast, where we do a lot of discussion about NFL draft. Obviously, we're Viking centric, but I'm looking to kind of, take, my Skoll search series to the next level where it's more generic, for lack of a better term NFL Draft content, where it's more evergreen for all 32 teams. Just talking about players and who they are in a vacuum rather than just to focus on the Vikings because I think that is that's a more important way to look at it. And then once they become Vikings, then it becomes a specific conversation because it's I think it's more important to learn about the players than learn about how they fit with a team first because that doesn't teach you enough. And I I like to try and be as informative as possible.

Speaker 3: My man. You have informed us all. I appreciate you. Tyler Fornes on the Daily DLP. Thanks so much for joining us, buddy.

Speaker 4: My pleasure. It's great to talk to you, Jeff.

Speaker 3: Alright. And with that, we'll call it a daily DLP. That was great. Love getting the the points of views from other folks who I trust and respect their opinions. We'll call it a show. Jeff Risen signing out. Be good to one another, everybody.