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Speaker 1: What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Bischoff and Brown right here on the Detroit Lions podcast. He's Scott Bischoff. I'm Russ Brown. We are Bischoff and Brown. We are back, essentially three weeks away from the twenty twenty six NFL draft. Pretty crazy to think about because the time that we would do a essentially a fourth episode up to the draft, will be live for the NFL draft. So it'll be a Thursday. We normally record on a Wednesday, Wednesday afternoon. So we'll we'll see how many more of these we get out, but we'll we'll definitely get, to some of the deeper portions in the coming weeks.

Speaker 3: But Do you wanna do a mock draft next week?

Speaker 1: I would love to. I think I would love to try to set it up to do it live, maybe maybe hit an evening spot if we possibly could. And, if the kid doesn't have baseball or something, I gotta check the schedule. But we'll figure it out. We'll iron something out. Would love to do a mock draft and talk through it. But Scott, my man, how the hell are you?

Speaker 3: I am glorious. It's happening with you.

Speaker 1: You know, we're glorious. If you're glorious, I'm glorious. We're all glorious.

Speaker 3: Oh, I'm telling stories, but whatever. It's good.

Speaker 1: Yeah. No. All good things here. Really excited for the the coming weeks for, NFL draft just to finally get here. I am so excited to see what the lions do. So many ways they could go. It feels like they're gonna go defensive end, offensive tackle, vice versa, at 17 50 in the NFL draft. But much of what we wanna start today's show with is Lions general manager Brad Holmes. He he did an interview with some good friends of the show, Jeff Iafrady, Will Birchfield, Colton Poutency, and Justin Rogers. He he interviewed with each one of them, on their show, The Lions Collective. Great podcast. You guys should check it out. You can find it on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, you name it.

Speaker 3: Follow them. Yes.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And while you're while you're while you're there, go ahead and rate review and subscribe to the Detroit Lions podcast as well. But, Brad Holmes was on their show yesterday, and it was really a fascinating interview the way that they, you know, touched on free agency, had a bunch of talking points on on how they're building the the roster, how they're reshaping the roster. But the I think the big thing was just more so about Brad Holmes talking about finding more affordable one year deals, in free agency this year. And let me just be, you know, perfectly honest with people. He's not the only general manager out there signing guys to one year deals. There's a lot of teams out there that did one year deals. Pittsburgh Steelers are doing it. A lot of teams are doing it. But Yeah. That said, Brad Holmes pressure to win with this football team because they they have a ready made championship built team.

Speaker 3: Thanks to him.

Speaker 1: Thanks to him. Yeah, absolutely. But but with that said, very fascinating interview. What were some of your takeaways from that interview? And, ultimately, what was your takeaway, from how he's building the roster and and his philosophy and what they're doing?

Speaker 3: So I don't know I don't know that he necessarily gave all that much away. Although we he is one of those he's one of the general managers who, in hindsight, he does he always does reveal things. Historically, he has. So when he when he met and when he mentioned yesterday that they're not done in free agency and they and there there's an offensive line signing that pops through this morning, it's like, okay. You know? So I didn't think he was all I didn't think he'd revealed all that much. The problem is is that if whatever he revealed was was sort of like confirming your your preconceived thoughts already. So Yeah. You know, if I was if I was worried about Kirby Joseph before, I'm still worried about Kirby Joseph. If I was not, I'm not, you know, based on what he said. So it's like he did a really good job of communicating what he wanted to share with them, which to me was the entire the entire function of free agency this off season was to improve at center and to manage their short term finances so they could sign Gibbs, Campbell, Branch, and Laporta when that time comes. That's what I that's what I heard. So, I didn't hear anything necessarily that that led me to believe that they're leaning any specific way, in and around the draft. If I wanted to hear if I wanted to hear that they that they were still crushing the can at defensive end, I think I heard that. You know what I mean? Like but that doesn't mean I did hear it. I Right. I don't know if that makes any sense what I'm saying, but it just like, that he talked about Wanam being a guy who was going to defend the run first and foremost, and and then give them some pass rush. And it's like, okay. If I wanted to go down a rabbit hole of they're taking Keldrick Falk if he's available because he is a souped up version of of of I shouldn't say it that way. That's the wrong way to say it. He's a big young version of of of, like, a player like Wannam, who's gonna defend the run at a high level for you, but not give you Yeah. Big pass rush stuff. So, again, if those if that was my thought before listening to the interview, I definitely came away feeling the feeling the exact same way. And I you know, maybe I'm just obtuse, and I and I didn't hear what I what I need. I don't know. Who knows? But I didn't think he really gave anything away. And I I definitely didn't take much away from anything around the draft that I that I didn't already feel going in. What did you think?

Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, for the most part, I'm I'm with you on that. I I think, you know, more so towards the the negativity on Brad Holmes, not not your negativity or anything like that. It's more so just towards the general public. Like, this guy, no matter what he does, he's damned if he does, he's damned if he doesn't. He's always gonna be in the wrong no matter what he says, no matter what he does. And I do think it's it's a little bit unfair for everybody to kinda put everything he says under a microscope and try to decipher and figure it out. And then I get it. That's our job here on the podcast, and and that's what I'm not saying that's what we're doing per se. But it's like everything he does, there's just something wrong with it anymore. And I I'm not like, I struggle with it because I think they have a vision. I think they stick to that vision. They have a process. They stick to that process and maybe they're trying to change that process. One, by getting younger but attaching one year deals to players and at the end of the day, like, they still have their philosophies and player types that they're looking for. Is it necessarily right or wrong? Yes and no. Because it has worked up to this point for the most part. They've hit on a lot of draft picks, and I think, really, if anything, they're gonna change their philosophies if the 2024 class and 2025 class just can't figure things out because we're kinda at we're at that breaking point with 2024. We're we're gonna start being at that breaking point at the end of this season with the 2025 class because once you get through two seasons with the class, that's kind of when you start figuring out, hey,

Speaker 3: this guy's

Speaker 1: yeah. This guy's good. This guy's not. This guy's what we need. This you know, and you start really evaluating and and kind of going through your assessment after, you know, you drafted those players. And and that's universal. So for me personally, like, just looking at everything he said, like, I I know he didn't real reveal too much. And there's still some good players out there in free agency and they still could go through that. But I trust that him preparing to give contracts for Brian Branch in Sam Laporte and Jack Kimmel. And looking to the future of those guys from that 2023 class, I trust that. And I think that's a good thing it's it's a good selling point for the players that you're drafting in the future and the players that you currently have. Like, hey.

Speaker 3: Isn't it a little ironic too that he is the reason why he he gets so much heat is because he has drafted so well. Yeah. He's a he is literally a product of his own the the reason why he's taking so much, it's because of his own success. People I you know, like, I don't remember Bob Quentin getting crushed. So maybe people were just apathetic back then. They just didn't give a shit.

Speaker 1: Yeah. There was no standard.

Speaker 3: Right? They they knew that those that everybody, for the most part, the majority of the picks that they made were just flops anyway. Yeah. But you can't say that about about Brad Holmes. And, you know, I do think that there needs to be a little bit of understanding. Like, he has done a great job in the draft. Even if even if he has missed here and there like like you said, the 2024 class looks looks strange right now because you haven't gotten a ton out of it. But Yeah. You know, look at the 2023 class. It it pushed them to the brink of of a Super Bowl berth. It just did. So Yeah. You know, I just I think it's there's a touch of irony in in the fact that his own success has led him to get criticized more than people who who kinda, no offense, sucked at what they were doing. And I'm not saying that anybody could have done it any better, but the results are the results.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: You know, it's just to me, it's there's there's a it's it's bitter looking at it. Like, he's done just a remarkable job. Let him be.

Speaker 1: He has. And and I think the thing too is, like, I shouldn't give you, like, almost like a a vote of confidence that this is a guy that is putting trust in not only himself, but his coaching staff and in his scouting department to go out and find players that not only that the coaches can coach up and get ready to play on Sundays and be good starters in the NFL. I mean, if the Lions didn't roll the dice on Amiek Robertson, I don't think Amiek Robertson is signing the contract that he just signed with Washington and getting that pay raise. If, you know, Alex Anzalone, obviously, that's a little bit of a different story. But Roy Roy Lopez, if he doesn't come to Detroit and he goes somewhere else and he doesn't play up to par, I don't know if he's getting that contract to go back to Arizona. And you can say that for a lot of the players that they've rolled the dice on in free agency, players that they've signed or or or, excuse me, drafted. So, like, I think it it gives you a vote of confidence that this is a guy saying, hey. Trust in our ability to draft. Look at what we did in '23. Look at the first round picks we've hit in '21, '22, '23. Put some trust in us to be able to do it again. We've done it before. We will do it again. And if we do it again with the pieces that they currently have on the boat that they've brought in to kinda patch some of the holes because that's what free agency is. Free agency is not it's not where you find your long term starters, the guys that are with you for ten years. Sure. You can sign a guy and he can get multiple contracts after his rookie deal, but the odds of him being with you for ten to fifteen years, it's it's slim to none. And I I think that's the thing. Like, you can go out and draft these guys and you put the pieces in the boat that fill the little gaps and holes in the boat with the the free agent signings that they've done. And and that's kinda what they've done here with the revamped offensive line because they didn't do this with their offensive line with the depth pieces last year. They put it they put trust in Awa Sika and Colby Shoresdale. Those guys swings and misses. They aren't guys that were able to develop into what they needed them to be. Kind of

Speaker 3: the same. Duocon and Tristan Colon and yeah.

Speaker 1: Ex exactly. Like, they tried it last year, didn't work out. These guys, I think, have one, a lot more experience. Two, they're better just overall on tape from what I've seen, and that includes Ben Bark, who they signed this morning, and that includes Larry Borm, who we'll we'll get into on on him a little bit, Juice Scruggs as well. So I just I like that they're attempting it. If they weren't attempting it, then we can sit here and I think have that negative bashing conversation about Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell and all of that because I don't I don't buy for a second that there is some type of animosity between Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell. I don't buy in the fact that they have different philosophies. If they did, I don't think Dan Campbell would waste his time being a part of this team. I really don't. I I think Dan Campbell is one of the most genuine people on the planet, and I genuinely believe that if this was not the right fit for him, he wouldn't be here because Dan Campbell knows that he could go somewhere else and easily win and be a part of something great just like he's doing here. So I think people just have to continue to be patient, allow this team to get healthy, and just keep adding the pieces that they have. And I think everything's gonna be alright. So I'm good with what he said. I was cool with the interview. I thought it was a great job by them. Kudos to them, and and yeah. So that I mean, long answer there for me but that's, you know, I I just I I look at everything and I just I don't know what people want Brad Holmes to do just to run through I mean, he has to have 10 to $12,000,000 in salary cap space. They were limited going in. I I don't know what you expect them to do just to sign guys to one year deals and then you're pissed that he's signing guys to one year deals and you're not spending picks to go get Max Crosby now. So it's just like he's damned if he does. He's damned if he and he I I just I don't know. I I love what they've done, you know, overall. Again, I would like some, obviously, some some higher caliber players if you will, but they're good enough and there's some really good value. And according to Benjamin Solak, who does, great work over at ESPN, he ranks the Lions free agency classes third best in the NFL. So Yeah. Take I mean, if you don't like listening to us, go listen to the national media. And Yeah.

Speaker 3: I think they're saying The the most important need I everybody knows this. Their their most important need for for specifically their quarterback was center. It just was. If they hadn't if they did not sign Cade Mays, at this point, I would be going, uh-oh. But they did. And they did give him they did give him three years. They signed him I mean, they signed a really nice contract with him. If you if you look around and and see and see what other centers have made, And I just assume he plays yeah. And the way he plays, he I I to me, he's he's really good in pass pro, and he's and he bolsters, the interior of that of the offensive line in the passing game, which Jared Goff is going to love. And we all know when Goff is rattled by pressure coming up the middle and can't step up, he doesn't play nearly to the level that he can. So you've bolstered that. You've then taken the the the edges neck not not the tackles, but the guards next to the center. You feel comfortable with Tate Ratlidge as your right guard. But at at at the left guard spot, you've got Mahogany. You have, Juice Scruggs who who is part of the Montgomery deal. I think he's best as a backup center, but he can play guard. Barts can play guard. So you're you're adding, you know, Miles Frasier's in that in in that consideration too. So you're adding NFL guys who have played, and you could see NFL film on these guys as opposed to relying on something that you don't know. And I think I think the beneficiary of all this is there is is Jared Goff, and all of us know that that's a good thing. It is. It just is. So I I mean, I like all that stuff. I I like what he's done. I think, you know, I mean, there there are questions about it, but I I'll just I'm gonna just lay it out as simple as this. If the lions were to go one step further in this free agency period and sign Cam Jordan to a and I'm not saying they're gonna do this. I'm just saying just a little thought bubble. If they were to bring Cam Jordan here on a one year deal, I think most fans would feel exuberant about about what the Lions have done in free agency. And it's like, that's that's that's how the how thin the margins are for Brad Holmes to be viewed as either successful in a position or a part of the off season or not. Right? So it's unrealistic to to think that Cam Jordan's coming anywhere on a one year deal. I've crossed my fingers, and I hope that's happening. Right? But I don't think it is. But still, I I you know, the Lions have gotten younger. They've added players who are I don't wanna say proven, like, NFL dudes, but they're NFL guys. Yeah. You know, that's it's that's that's different than than bringing in and taking swings on backups who have been, you know, in other places who have never played and you think that, alright. Well, maybe that guy can play center for us. No.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: You know? So, I mean, I really like what they've done, but I'm also not I'm also predisposed to not be super negative about this stuff anyway. So

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and just, you know, just to kinda end it on this, you know, and I'll I'll give the quote, that Brad Holmes did from the show. And and just real quick talking about salary cap, according to what is on, Spotrac right now, the Lions have $24,000,000 in cap space. So they still need again relatively about $12,000,000, maybe even a little bit more for the NFL draft. So half of that's gonna go away, and that that includes, okay, maybe one big fish, maybe, if you're lucky.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And I I think another thing too is is, like, people are saying, you know, shame on Brad Holmes for looking ahead and looking at future deals like Brian Branch and Jack Campbell and all of that. But, also, the other thing is this is, like, they're kinda getting mad that he's looking beyond that at Amon Ra Saint Brown and Jameson Williams. And those guys that are gonna be having to need another contract extension in another year or two anyways. So I don't, like, I don't know if that's male like, I don't know how that would be a a poor job by a general manager to look ahead and ensure that he's not putting his own foot in his mouth and and rear ending this team and putting them in financial hell and adding all of these void years and doing all of that. When you have four or five players accounting for about 50% of your salary cap as it is, and those four or five players are Aiden Hutchison, Pene Sewell, Amun Raus Saint Brown. I mean, you have guys that are making a lot of money. And if you just saw what happened earlier this week, and this is just for the fans out there, we just saw a big contract extension for Jackson Smith and Jigba north of $40,000,000. Well, guess who's gonna need north of $40,000,000 in a couple of years when he needs another contract? I'm in Ross Saint Brown or you lose the best player to your offense. So, like, think about what's coming down the road and I get it. Salary cap is going to go up. It is going to go up, but guess what? It hasn't gone up just yet. They need confirmation that the number is going to go up. So you can live in pretend land and all this stuff, but reality is is the number is what it is right now, and the Lions have to abide by it. So Yeah. I think

Speaker 3: in some ways, fans it feels like fans just want them to go all in. Yeah. There is more there there's money for them to get to. They they haven't restructured Penny Sewell. They haven't restructured Amon Ra Saint Brown's deal. They they restructured golf, but not fully. So I I feel like I mean, I understand what fans are thinking Yeah. In in terms of just go on on and go sign Cam Jordan to three to a three year deal. But it doesn't it doesn't fit where where they're at. So I understand that. Right? And and I also think that then you throw in the, the idea that you alright. You have Amun Ra Saint Brown signed long term. You you signed Jameson Williams long term, and you gave up a bunch of capital last year in the draft to go up and grab a receiver who didn't play very much in round three. I understand the the frustration in and around that. So, I mean, I get it, and I understand the perspective of that. And it's in some ways, that's valid, but we can't argue that Tesla has a bright future. Right? So, I understand I understand some of the frustration in and around the roster building components of things. But, you know and I I mean, you know, he's swung and missed a few times. Giovanni Manu is a swing and a miss. There there have been those, but there have been absolute home runs too. So Yeah. I get it. Yeah. He just let's let it play out.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And just to end it here, Brad Holmes explain why the lions went for affordable deals and and this is being read off of, Brad Galley's Twitter account, from channel seven news. He explains, you know, why they went into these more affordable one year deals, and this is, you know, quotes from, Brad Holmes. I don't want you guys to ever think that or anybody to ever think that we have a lot of money, that we have it. We don't want to spend it. No. We're actually spending everything that we have available to us, and so that's what I wanted to kinda make clear. And so he so talk about constraints. We're we're trying to get as many players as we can, as many good football players as we can that fit us with constraints. So

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean, the Lions have to fill a 90 man roster regardless, and then they start trimming it down from there. So I I think it's one of those things, like, they're gonna have a full roster. They're not gonna be able to have all home runs on on the deck here, and it's just what it's gonna have to be. You're gonna have to have a couple of pop flies, a couple of singles in there, couple of doubles, and some of those guys are gonna go and some of those some of those players are gonna get cut. So we'll see. I I I think creating competition is good, and that's what the Lions have done. And, again, with free agency, it takes two to tango. It takes if a player doesn't wanna be here and he has the free reign to go play somewhere else, guess what? He may go play somewhere else. So, that said, Lions have done a ton on their offensive line. They've added players such as Larry Borum. Earlier today, they signed, Ben Barch, an offensive guard. They signed Cade Mays. They traded for Juice Scruggs, a part of that deal with with, David Montgomery. They've done a really good job, I think, revamping things and not putting all the eggs in the basket of Krish Mahogany or Tate Ratlidge or Michael Neece. And I'm not saying, like, oh, that's a red flag. But Krish Mahogany has struggled at times on the field. He's also struggled with being available. Tate Ratlidge Tate Ratlidge has done a really good job, I think, as a rookie, but there were still flashes last year of inconsistencies and where he got tested. And and I think he'll be fine, but you gotta make sure that you have insurance behind him because I think the last thing the Lions wanna do is be faced with what they had last year with all of these different offensive line combinations. They wanna ensure that they've got a solid first line and a good second line and, obviously, the interchangeable parts. And one of my big things with the offensive, like, tackle conversation, and I know you've got some opinions about Larry Borm, so I'll let you get to it. But I just still wonder for the fans out there, not necessarily for you, but more so just for the fans out there. Is there a chance that Miles Frasier has a bigger role on this offensive line than anybody believes? Because I think last year, he flashed a bunch, and I think he's athletic enough to play any position they need him to play. I'm not saying he's a left tackle, but I've often said, I think there's right tackle flexibility and center flexibility within his game because he's a is such an athletic player. I just wonder, do they view it the same way? Because if I'm seeing it, if you're seeing it, if Jeff Rizdon is seeing it, then obviously the Lions have to see it as well. They are far more smarter at football than we are. So I just I do wonder, if they believe they have some of of what they need in house already. So it's gonna be really interesting, but I love what they've done. But that that brings me to the point of Larry Borum. He's a player that, you've kinda stressed to me as as far as maybe being the right tackle here for for at least maybe the start of the season. So I wanted to to give you the floor here.

Speaker 3: So I'm just it's a worry. And I can hear I just think that people need to be prepared around the idea that even if you do even if you do take a a right tackle with pick 17 or in a the the the wonderful concept of a trade down that never happens, it would be awesome if that happened. But in a scenario where you take right tackle, even at pick 17, there is a very strong chance that Larry Borum is a better tackle in week one than the player you drafted in the first round. There just is. So we all everybody needs to to get comfortable with that idea. Now I don't I don't want that to be the case. I you know, neither of us do. I think Borum is a in a perfect world, he's a swing tackle and a depth player who gives them some insurance in in a scenario where your starter gets injured, your starting right tackle gets injured. But looking at some of the tackle names, and I think we'll, you know, we'll get there in a few minutes, but I just think that it it's it's important to recognize that Borham has a place as they're, right now I would say they've penciled him in as they're starting right tackle. And that's the luxury of having a player like Penny Sewell. Brad Holmes mentioned it yesterday. Question I have is, is the player you take in round one better than Borham? And I think it's a there's a strong chance that they and the answer is no. So everybody kinda get comfortable with that concept that while we all want him to be the swing tackle and him to be a depth piece, my guess is it's more it's more likely than not that he's more than that.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I and look. I mean, it's it's a little terrifying because I don't think Larry Borum is is necessarily great. But I think there are flashes, and I think the flashes are enough to encourage you to say, hey. Okay. We might get some quality minutes or quality snaps out of Larry Borum maybe the first four weeks of the season. Maybe it's the first six I I I don't know what that timeline looked like. And, again, we obviously were just kinda guessing and we're speculating because we we haven't seen the first 16 picks of the first round yet. So we don't know what the board's gonna look like. And I also think that's kinda why Brad Holmes probably said some of the things that he said yesterday regarding Borham and and other players and signings that they have because he's not gonna put his foot in his mouth. He's not gonna show encouragement towards the players that he just signed. I mean, it just it's what it's gonna be. He he cannot sign a guide whether it be to a one year deal, five year deal, whatever. He can't throw that player under the bus. It'll just never happen. It's bad for business. And I'm not saying that's what you're saying he should do or anything like that. But I I I I do think it creates a very interesting conversation when we get to that point in a couple of weeks if they go offensive tackle at 17, who's the player? I I mean, just looking at the list of guys, like, I don't see in any world that Francie Maui Go is gonna be a player that they take because I don't think he's gonna be there. Yeah. I I'm hesitant towards Monroe Freeling. We've kind of said the dream is dead, but if the Caden Procter top 10 buzzes for real, then maybe Monroe Freeling falls to them at 17 or in reaching distance to maybe move up a little bit and go get your guy. But even then, do you feel comfortable with Munro Frieling at left tackle, or do you go Pena at left tackle and then you have Borum at right tackle? And then if Munro's ready, then maybe you put Panay on the right side and then you put Monroe freely at left tackle. I I I don't know. And the same could be said with Caleb Lomu. I just I don't know. I mean, I think he's I think he's NFL ready. Do the NFL teams think that too? And if they think that, is Caleb Lommel a player that's also gone by 17? I don't I don't know how it's gonna shake out. I know you don't either, but it does create a very fascinating conversation and dialogue of, like, what this could look like because I I I think the Lions could be a team that if their guy is gone at 17, they could pass altogether an offensive tackle and maybe even defensive end if that guy's gone too and go best player available. I don't know what best player available would be to them at that spot. I don't think it would be Kenyan Saddique, and I don't

Speaker 3: Not a soul alive knows. Nobody knows. Right. But if the whole thing the whole thing is prepare yourself to not necessarily get much out of your first round player

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: This year. And that's all. That's it. And so in and out, that'll be more ammo against Brad Holmes. It just will. Like you you took a player who didn't help you in a Super Bowl window. What are you doing? So Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I can already it's it's it's gonna be a thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It is. Well, that kinda brings us up to what we wanted to end the show on, going through some of the draft options between picks seventeen and fifty. I believe you've got five or six names written down possibly or I can go through the names either way. But we've got a couple of names that we wanna go through, as potential options and and kinda see where the board falls in our mind and maybe, essentially, we're setting the table hopefully for a live mock draft to do next week because we haven't done one yet. But, I mean, some of the players that you have in mind, what's that list look like and and let's talk through it.

Speaker 3: So if the whole the concept around this is you have picked seventeen and and fifty, and let's just assume that we're correct, which we're not, but let's just assume we are.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: The needs are tackle and edge, And everybody's talking about it. Right? What's the best way what's the most efficient way about doing your business at Pick 17 and Pick 50 to get the two best available players in in that combination of positions? And just go ahead and go out there and do a mock draft, everybody, and go goes take an edge at pick 17 and look at what's available at pick 50, and you're gonna go, that's not doable. Right? Unless you get super lucky, and that's not a great strategy. So I think it almost forces you to look at tackle at 17 and edge at 50 where there's there's obviously, the premium players are available at 17 in multiple positions, but there's, like, five names where you go, okay. That's cool. And there's two edge players in that scenario at 17 where you go, alright. That's cool. But looking forward to round two, at pick 50, there's there's a lot more edge prospects available who I think fit the lions really well and maybe better than the edge prospects in the first round do. Because I when I look at, like, the smaller speedy guys, I just don't think that's the lion's bag. You know? It's not their cup of tea.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So so to me, just go people go just have people go out there and do mock drafts and and take a take an edge or whatever at pick 17, and then go find the tackle in round two. Good luck. So this whole thing is in and around the idea that you're taking a tackle in round one, and that's Spencer Fanon and Caleb Lomu from Utah are in the in the conversation. Caden Proctor is Max is, and Blake Miller is. The last two guys, I think I would love for them to take a he in a chore, but I get it. It might feel a little early. The last he and he and Miller are candidates, I guess, I would say, in a small trade back. But those are the five names that at tackle that that at pick 17, you go, alright. I could you can you can I mean, if you wanna, you know, put that puzzle together, the pieces fit? It's cool. I think Akeem Messador and Keldrick Falk are the two edge players at 17 where that would make some sense. I know that most of us don't like Falk and prefer Messador more. I think the lions are absolutely inverted on that. I'd be surprised if the lions do pass on on Keldrick Fulk. But regardless, those are the seven play I know it's seven players that pick 17. It's ridiculous. But so we have Fanon, Lomu, Procter, Ahina Chore, and Miller. And, you know, I think, I don't know. So so I'm curious about what you think about Fanon. I think he is Fanon is more of a, to me, he's a more of a outside zone, wide zone, heavy zone usage tackle who's better in space and just on the move than he is as a pure people mover. He doesn't use his hands great in pass pro. He has a tendency to kind of pop his chin on on the top of the shoulder pads of the defensive end. So it kinda keeps his hands more tucked instead of, you know, outside and using his his length, which he doesn't have real long arms even if you give him the benefit of the doubt of pro days. But, as a right tackle, I mean, I would understand it, and it makes and it it's fine. He's more athlete than he is big people mover, though, so I'm not sure if he fits what the lions are wanting to do. Caleb Lomu played left tackle at Utah. Go ahead. Tell me what you think of Fanon. Sorry.

Speaker 1: No. You're good. I've you know, when I look at Fanon Fanon, I'm with you a 100% on outside zone. I think, like, when I think of where a potential sleeper landing spot for him in the first round is, I think Kansas City all day long at nine. Because if Francis Malagua is Francis Malagua is gone, if Caden Proctor is potentially gone or Monroe Freeling is gone, I think Fanon is somebody that they could plug and play as a right tackle. And I know this is a lion show, not a chief show, and I know nobody cares what the chiefs are doing. But I'm just using them as an example to kinda set the board because they moved on from Joanne Taylor. They have a need at right tackle. And as we talk about it, the the board kinda changes after you get through the first round of offensive tackles. And if certain day two guys like Blake Miller go or something like that, the board changes. So for Fanon, I think he can be a plug and play right tackle for a team just because I think he's got enough aggressiveness on tape throughout his career. He didn't really show that in 2025. He didn't finish blocks, as well. But he was a player that I felt like was a little bit more technically sound in 2024 and then kind of freelanced it a little bit more in 2025. And maybe that just comes with experience, and and this is a guy that once he gets in an NFL weight room, he'll definitely get stronger and better and and and all of those things. But I I wouldn't be mad at him at 17 because I know the Lions could use him a ton on GT counter. I think he could pull relatively well. I just don't know how I feel necessarily about some of the gap scheme stuff or those deuce blocks that you're gonna have to execute. I don't know if he's gonna move guys as much as you would want him to or block down on a guy and drive or dig that guy out. So I'm like a down block or something like that. But you pull him, you get him to reach block. I think there's some effectiveness there. I think he's relatively, you know, technically sound in the pass game. So I'm not opposed to him at all, long story short here. But I just really question, is he going to be there? Because the two teams that I get kinda stuck on for him and, really, the third there's three teams. It's nine with Kansas City. It's the Baltimore Ravens at 14. And, honestly, the Los Angeles Rams at 13, I could see just taking the best player available and preparing for a better right tackle if they don't feel like Warren McClendon can be that guy. And I think Fanon could be a sneaky player there to kinda help shore up some things on that offensive tackle position for for the Rams. So, I I really like him. I just don't know if he's gonna be there. And and if he even is there, do they prefer a guy like a Caleb Lomu? I don't know.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I mean, then it's then it's Lomu. And we don't have to get into the specifics around that because we're going we're kinda going long here. But so it's Lomu Procker, then Ahina Chore, and Miller. And they all have their flaws. They all have their good their good things. If if that's the pick for the lions in round one, whether it's at 17 or in a trade back Mhmm. Who who am I to argue it? It's cool. Right? But it's it's it's in and around the the idea that in round two, there there are no players who can come in and and let's just say all of those players we just mentioned, all five of those tackles are in a camp battle with Larry Borum to start at right tackle for you. How many of those guys are beating Borham out in week one? I don't know.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So prepare yourself for that. Like, that's a thing. Like, you know, Tylek Williams was a nice pick last year. What did he offer you in the first half of the season? You know what I mean? It's not

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So that's that's this is where we are, is that you're you're in a not necessarily a great place to to bring a player in and have him be a rock star from day one. So prepare prepare for that. Like, there's a scenario where Borom might beat out any of those guys as you're starting in the first I'm saying in week one. I'm not saying all year, but in week one. And maybe that's not the worst case scenario as far as, like, putting the putting the offensive line together. And then we go to the edge position in round two, and I'm really curious where where, you have some of these guys, like, TJ Parker from Clemson at pick 50 or Derek Moore from Michigan, Gabe Gabe Yakis from, Illinois. I'm not I can't say I'm not gonna say his name right. You guys know who I'm talking about. Or Danny Dennis Sutton from Penn State. Those guys. I think those are your picks at 50, your edge picks at 50. I know you like Jaishon Barham too, and I do too. I just I wonder if he's more suited to be a stand up outside backer in a three four than he is a a pure edge presence, although he's a menace. He is a he is an absolute nightmare as an edge player. But I I really liked Josiah Stewart last year too, and it just seems like, you know, the Lions are not they're not about those two hundred and forty pound dudes.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 3: Regardless. So in round two, TJ Parker, Danny Dennis Sutton, Derek Moore, Gabe Yakis. Maybe I'm missing a few another name or two. But those are guys I I think, I think offer you enough length, enough enough size. They're gonna set the edge. They're gonna be run first before anything else defenders. You know? Like, I I think that makes some sense.

Speaker 1: Something I I wanna throw out to people, and that it I don't think this has been talked about enough.

Speaker 3: I saw the twinkle in your eye just now. This is this could be good.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So, like, I'm sitting here, and I'm listening to you, and I'm I'm running things in my head. And there's I think there's a lot of intrigue with certain teams in this draft. There's quite a few teams with multiple first round picks. We have the New York Jets. We have the Arizona Cardinals. Not the Arizona Cardinals. Excuse me. We have the, Los Angeles Rams trading away with Kansas City. We got Kansas City. We've got the Jets. We've got, the Miami Dolphins. We've got Cleveland, and I might be missing somebody. I don't think so. So we got those four teams. Dallas. In Dallas. Dallas. Yes. So we got five teams. And I think it's interesting because the Seattle Seahawks have four picks in this year's draft, and they just gave a ton of money to Jackson Smith. They have a ton of money on the books for Sam Darnold. They moved on from Kenneth Walker. They need help across the board, and they need to retool. They haven't signed a lot of players. They haven't done a lot. So I think they're in a really interesting spot. Is there any chance that the lions get their offensive tackle? Maybe it's Caleb Lomu, maybe it's maybe it's, you know, Fanu, maybe it's Monroe Freeling, whoever. Or maybe it's the defensive end. Maybe it's Messador, maybe it's, Kendrick Falk. I'm cool with either one. What if they were to trade up from 50 to 32? And sure, they'd have to give up future capital, but they've got a ton of day they got a ton of capital on day three.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: They real realistically, they don't I don't wanna say they they I don't think they need it. So they can move and and move up into that first round and get that offensive tackle. Let's just say Caleb Lomu. And then at pick 32, because I don't think he'll be there at pick 50, you just go ahead and get your defensive end and you go get, let's say, TJ Parker or Malachi Lawrence, or you go out and get a Key Messidore if he falls. I don't think Ruben Bayne falls. But imagine just imagine this. If Ruben Bayne fell to 17 and you go get Ruben Bayne and then at pick 32, Ayanna Chor is sitting there and you go and get him.

Speaker 3: The pants have to come off at that scenario. But that scenario, they just do yes. Like Yeah.

Speaker 1: So I don't I and that's kinda to wrap everything in my thought and perspective in a bow, The lions could get aggressive. They have the ability to go get aggressive, and that's something that people are not realizing. They think of just seventeen and fifty. And I'm not saying you're saying that or anybody on our on our shows here, but many people just we get caught in this mindset of, like, seventeen and fifty. What about 17 and 32? What about 17 and 34? What about, you know, what about getting up? I mean, they they did it when they had Matt Stafford. They they went and got Stafford and Brandon Pettigrew. We saw them go out and get Jack Campbell and Jameer Gibbs. We've seen them go up and get Jameson Williams. They've been aggressive in the past. If they have a guy that they like, and maybe that guy is Ruben Bane. Maybe that's a guy they trade up for from 17 and go get.

Speaker 3: And then Fans would love that. Love that.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I think, you know, if they okay. If they settle on Borum at right tackle and they're gonna kick the can and say, hey. Maybe we go back and get Taylor Decker, and we go with Borham and Decker and the players that we have, and maybe we add a young offensive tackle like a Jude Bowery or, Demetrius Crown over who could be really good or really bad. Who knows? But you you, you know, you you go out. Right. It's a coin flip. But you go out, you get one of those guys and then you trade up and get your guy. I don't think you can fault Brad Holmes for navigating and putting trust in the coaching staff and navigating through the free agency process and the draft with that mindset if they go out and get some guys that fit them. And even if they stay pat and we go through this scenario and and the the nonchalant way and just say, Hey, 17, we go Caleb Loh move, 50, we go out and get Derek Moore. If that's the case, I'm good with it because I genuinely think the Lions got better. As long as they're adding players that make them better and we're not adding these players that have question marks from day one. I mean, sure, every player is gonna have their flaws because there's not a outside of maybe Mendoza and Jeremiah Love. And even then there's question marks. I mean, maybe Vega Ione, but I don't think he's gonna be there. So at that point, like, you you have players with question marks regardless of where you're taking them. And that's that's just the reality of where the Lions are picking. The further away from one you're picking, you're you're getting more more question marks. But I believe that this is a football team that can identify good football players, go find them and get them. We just need some guys with some clear medical history, and I think we'll be all right. So that's kind of where I stand here on on seventeen and fifty. I prefer going offensive tackle first, go get your defensive end. And if that means getting aggressive and moving up for that defensive end, that's kind of the moral of the story, then by all means, go do it because that's really what I think you're away. I think you're a really solid offensive tackle and a really solid defensive end away from being the team that everybody thinks you're gonna be. I've just that's what I believe. I could be wrong, been wrong many times before, but I I trust that Derek Barnes, Malcolm Rodriguez, Trevor Nowoski, Jack Jack Campbell, and a a depth piece at linebacker and even Damon Clark, I I trust what the lines are doing. The potential is through the roof with what they have. They just they gotta they gotta execute.

Speaker 3: Back room. Look how good it looks. Right. Right? Like,

Speaker 1: look at the corner

Speaker 3: of the deck. For a second. Pretend that Kirby Joseph does return to some semblance of what 2024 look like, even if it's for two or three years. And branch returns, say, in week eight. Whatever. Is he in is he the free agent signing, you sign him for one year. Is he in place for them for half the season and then branch comes back? But look at the look at the corner back room. It's loaded. Yeah. And, I mean, I don't I don't I don't see how there is a problem there. I mean, you you got DJ Reed returning. You have Rakya Sen. You have Terry and Arnold. You have, I'm gonna forget names.

Speaker 1: Rachael.

Speaker 3: Rachael. Who who knows? Whatever. Who knows? You have Roger McCreary. Yeah. I just they're Slow down. Yeah. They're much deeper than they were in the past. Safety is a thing we're gonna have to consider, but maybe maybe we shouldn't be it shouldn't be Panicville about it. Maybe Yeah. Kirby Joseph does return, and it's not, you know, it's it doesn't feel like seventeen's a need, you know, where where you gotta go safety and throw everything away. You know? Like, that's a huge wrench. But, yeah, I mean, I think that they're in a scenario where if you add if you add a player who can sprinkle in some help as a pass rusher somewhere along the way to go with what they've done, that's good. It's good stuff.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's gonna be really interesting. I think next week is is mock draft week. We we put something together. We jump on here live and and spice it up, see what we can do. Maybe we run through one with without trading and and one where maybe we trade up or something and and we get through two of them for you guys or something like that. We'll do it live. We'll take your comments. We'll have some fun, and, we'll we'll try to

Speaker 3: set that up. Everybody be nice.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Be be nice. Okay? It's just a mock draft simulator. It's not even real. You got anything else? No. Sweet. Well, I got nothing else either. The only thing I got for you guys, please follow us on Twitter or x at Russ NFL Draft and at Bischoff underscore Scott. And, of course, as I said earlier, you can rate, review, and subscribe subscribe to the Detroit Lions podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and all other podcast platforms. I don't have anything. Scott's got nothing. This has been Bischoff and Brown right here on the Detroit Lions podcast. We'll be back next week with more Bischoff and Brown.