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Speaker 1: Hi, Dey ho, Lions. Welcome to the Detroit Lions podcast episode 612, the Detroit Lions and the Terryon Arnold fallout. We'll, we're gonna go through everything. I mean, there's been a lot about talk about this lately, but we're gonna cover this soup to nuts. This is the official Detroit Lions podcast for Reddit. I am your dashing ghost, Chris. And with me is the man who loves to come in your ear holes every day, Jeff, the Riz Rizden. How are you doing, brother?

Speaker 2: Chris, it's good to be with you. We get to do a live show. I'm so happy about this.

Speaker 1: I know, man. It's it's

Speaker 2: I'm sure the people are sick of me talking to myself about Terry and Arnold. Now I get to talk to you about it. We get to talk to the people about it, and that's just

Speaker 1: been really happy. And and there's a lot to talk about. It's we're at a point. There's still gonna be speculation, but we know a lot more now than we did even just a couple of days ago. And it feels like, you know what? Let's just dive into it. Let's talk about it, get it over with, and then move on. Right? Because

Speaker 2: That's that's the general hope.

Speaker 1: That's one of the things that really had me frustrated with this thing. What happened was great. This is all we're gonna hear about for the entire off season. The the the the the quiet time.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the the fact that it happened when it did, like, when everybody's gone and and by the way, pretty much the entire Lions beat is on vacation this week. I was fortunate enough to be on vacation last

Speaker 1: week. I

Speaker 2: was, like, the last man standing, which is kinda fun. It's led to a a plethora of media appearances for me around the country. But beyond that, like, it's it just sucks, man, because, like, mini camp ended with us talking to Terry and Arnold as he's walking back into the locker room. And he was I'll give him credit. He was gracious with his time, spent fifteen, twenty minutes. You know, there's the entire lion's beat. There's cameras that, like, microphones in his face and everything. And he deflected questions on this particular subject a little bit, but, like, he I I will tell you from from that that act that that was two weeks ago today.

Speaker 1: Like Yeah.

Speaker 2: He clearly had no clue this was coming, that that this this all this stuff was gonna fall on him. And and that's you know, beyond all other things, Trianardo is a human being who's going through something that you don't wanna go through. And he by all accounts, he is a good person who made some really, really fucking awful choices. And that's it it's sad to see somebody like that specifically throw their life away for this.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And he was

Speaker 2: a career away. He he

Speaker 1: wasn't the best quarterback in the league, but he certainly wasn't the worst. And he he had upside. I mean, he had a lot to really bring and and help with this team, and it's a it's a huge loss. Right? And it's it's wild because I've seen so many different reactions to this, including my own. I I I actually at one point here, I I wanna clear clarify the the tweet that I that I put out because I think, in in with some context, it makes sense. Right?

Speaker 2: Ruffled some feathers, Chris.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Surprise. I imagine

Speaker 2: that? Imagine that.

Speaker 1: But yeah. No. He's a crucial part. Let me actually, let me do this thing. I'm gonna just go through a couple things for you. Okay?

Speaker 2: Alright.

Speaker 1: And this is the root of that of the tweet that ruffled people's feathers. Right? I'm just gonna go through a couple names. You got Terry on. You got Reggie Rogers. You got Charles Rogers. You got Titus Young. You got Michaelisels Schorr, Eric Handelcheck, Mike Utley, Reggie Brown, Billy Sims, Javid Best, Jordan Dizon, Caleb Campbell, and more and more and more and more and more who, whether it's a catastrophic injury, Andalcek was just an absolute Oh

Speaker 2: my god.

Speaker 1: Just calamity. Just, an absolute calamity. Through, you know, Titus everybody knows Titus because that's a relatively recent story. Right? Yeah. But these are very other than the injury ones, but they're very unique to the lions, the catastrophes that have happened here. And Tarion and I and I and and, you know, the whole alleged and all that stuff because it's not there. But it definitely seems, no matter what happens one way or another, that he was involved in some way with something that was really stupid. Right?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: It's Right. Like, people that know him say it's not in character. Right? And and and it's probably not. I I believe that. But, man Yep. There's a series of really fucking stupid choices that took place to even put yourself in that position. That's why I talk about even when we talk about the refs, don't put yourself in a position where it even looks like you're not above board. Right? Because it's gonna come back, and it causes all kinds of issues. You have a situation with him that the courts are gonna work through and everything else, but f him for putting himself in that position. And Yeah. It's and the other part that kinda wrung with me was, you know, these guys, they know you maybe they might know you a little bit just because we're in the media, but most people, they don't. And it's wild because how tribal people are where they're gonna come to to the defense of a guy. You know, Ray Rice is a great example, like, of his alleged misdeeds. Bunch of the people came to his defense, right, in the name of winning the game and and whatever. I'm just tired of this team being on the cusp and having something so fucking ridiculous hit. And when it's a dumb choice that puts you in that position, it it just I'm I'm tired of it. I'm just sick of this shit. You know what I mean? I am Yeah. And and I'm a Lions fan, a Detroit person first, and I feel bad for the guy. What the fuck are those bad decisions, man? Like, come on. There's 52 other guys on the roster, more in the off season, but 52 other guys in the officer, roster that haven't had something like that didn't get involved in something like this, who have all different levels like you would with 52 people just gathered out of the the backgrounds where these guys come from. You're gonna find somebody who's into something. Right? All those other guys, they didn't do something this dumb, or they didn't get caught, maybe. I don't know. But this it it bothers me. It bothers me so much because the team again,

Speaker 2: you

Speaker 1: think about I'll go to Michela Shore. Nobody cares about Michela Shore today. Titus Young. It's like, oh, yeah. That's an embarrassment. He's gone. But in the moment, it's really big deal. Right? It was impactful to the team because he the the Titus was was a big piece of the offense. It could have been just an amazing piece of the offense. Completely unset unsettled the plan and everything else. So that's where that whole thing came from, and it was literally frustration with the team and the dumb choices that that he made. How guilty he is and how involved he is, I I can't say. I don't know. I wasn't there. I saw the I saw I was watching the the the hearing on Monday, and he's got a great lawyer. He's got an absolutely fantastic lawyer who did a great job of kinda pulling apart, you know, the story. I I and and and if I take it at face value, it's like, oh, there's not a whole lot here. But if I look at the team, what they how they reacted, I think then I think about what, you know, what is the legal process? It's the lawyer is just finding an inconsistency anywhere, and the story told by the prosecution is if I could poke a hole, I can get my guy off. It doesn't mean he's really guilty or not. Right? I mean, but in the face of the law, it is, but it doesn't necessarily mean the truth of what happened. And I just I don't know. It's it's it's just it's so much. It's just so much to try to swallow in a time when we were, again, so close. And I don't I'm not saying we won't be close again, but to be so close and have something like that happen is just it's it's not just him. He pulls a big chunk of the plan away after the draft. Again, it's like Frank Ragnow not telling him that he's gonna he's not gonna be there till after the draft. It's the same it's like your choices led to this and it did the worst possible time. February would have been great. And I see people saying, oh, the team knew. They didn't draft like they knew. You know? I'm sorry. I'm going I'm going I'm going on a on a monologue here at Rantan.

Speaker 2: No. No. No. That's okay. Because I I think what you just said at the end there is important. They didn't expect this. Therion didn't like like, clearly, talking to him two weeks ago, he had no idea that this was like, obviously, he understands that there was something coming along. But the fact that he got indicted on six felony charges and is orchestrating as a crime ring, like, leader, like, I don't think he thought that was coming. And my speculation is is that he had told the lions, don't worry about this. And the story that he told them wasn't what played out in court. And that was one of the reasons, you know, they lost their trust in him. It could be just be that they didn't wanna pay him as well because he's he would be on paid leave, and you're paying for a guy who's on trial. And do you really wanna see as a lion's organization, do you wanna see Detroit lions quarterback, Terry and Arnold, you know, found guilty or even not guilty? Or do you want it to be ex Detroit Lions quarterback? You know, that that that that's not insignificant, I don't think, Chris.

Speaker 1: No. No. Not at all. And it's just it is. It's it's it's preventable. Right? This didn't happen to him. He took he was involved with he may we all make choices. How we react is how we we choose lead these things. Right? And it's terrible. I feel bad for him as a human being. Right? I don't want anybody to go through this. Right? I don't know him. He doesn't know me. And Riz, I I I don't think he's hey. Your name or even though you saw him couple weeks ago, I don't think you've you've passed through his head at all. Right?

Speaker 2: No. No.

Speaker 1: It's like so No. There there's a there's a people put a certain amount of kind of faith and love into into people like this because they're on the team. But, there it's also having done this long enough, it's it's pretty transient. You know what I mean? The the how much oh, oh, Ben Johnson. Superhero. Superhero in Detroit. Ben? Oh, fuck Ben Johnson. He's that fast because he's somewhere else. Same guy. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's that that's the nature of the beast, though. And that's, you know, it's just the the whole timing of it with with nothing else really going on in the NFL. NFL. I mean, this is the NFL's week where, like, they're ruling out the the top 100 players on NFL network, like, fabricating content as best as they can. And, you know, it's given people who probably don't need to talk about it an opportunity to talk about it. I saw that, you know, somebody called Rob Parker has made a name for himself here, and, like, I I don't really care who what he thinks or what you know? Like,

Speaker 1: It never struck me as as particularly relevant prior to this. You know what I mean? So how did he suddenly oh, he's on an angle to to twist this in.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And and, you know, people do that. Like, I I I I I hate that, but I get it. Like, I I I do understand that. But, man, it's just and and so so, Chris, let me ask you this, because there's a lot of this sentiment that I'm getting, and I wonder where you're at on it, that the lions didn't do enough here. What do you what's your thought on that in terms of, like, preparing for that this could be coming or not doing enough to, insulate themselves from from the blowback and all like, I'm cur where are you at on that?

Speaker 1: From what I've heard from people that I know and just from observation. So I got a there's a little bit of dust, and there's a little bit of just kind of observant kind of thing here. They were all blindsided by this. Tarrying on on. I don't I think whatever again, this is all alleged. So wherever on the spectrum of didn't do shit to massively guilty of crazy things. Right? Yeah. He didn't expect anything to come from this. Whether it's he got away with it or whatever it is. Right? His his he didn't expect this. And so the team didn't expect it either. If if they didn't hear anything from him, they heard the early story from February. Obviously, they did not adjust because of it. Mhmm. I kinda wanna lean into that question a little bit further, though. And I put this in the Slack. Thinking about it, like, people are, like the the the same people are saying this, but then you have kind of camps where people sit on all this stuff. And you have people saying, you know, Terry Allen was a nice boy. He he he just made bad decisions, or he, you know, this isn't this isn't him or at all. Right? And then out of the other side of their mouth, they'll say, and and Brad and Dan failed because they drafted a turd with issues. Right? They they failed the draft. Now that wasn't a good draft for them. I don't ever wanna see another draft in Detroit at this point because I'm just maybe I got the the heebie jeebies on it, but

Speaker 2: was not a good class.

Speaker 1: No. No. And we've now got one to point to where we can start saying, okay, Brad. There's there's some real questions about, are you super Brad or what? Because you had a whole stack of bad picks one year. And maybe that's why there was no, inside the deck. Who knows? Right? But, anyway,

Speaker 2: I forgot about that. They that's right. They didn't

Speaker 1: do one night here. I don't I don't think they failed. I think they they did all the research. I just it's wild that all of these things like, this behavior and I mean, you get Nick Nick I don't wanna say I don't wanna refer to Nick Saban what he says because he's I I've I've just left him ever since he screwed Michigan State, and I'm not even a Michigan State fan. So I didn't wanna go there. But, and we have a lot of people vouching for his character. Right? But this was this was this was something. So it's it can be true that Brad and Dan had no information about this. They could have just made the pick was good. He he was impactful. He was absolutely a starting caliber cornerback, our best, if not one of the top two on the team. Right? In in exactly a position we needed. Right? I mean, we're we're not we're not as much as I love the guy, we're not running Jerry Jacobs out there. You know what I mean? Right. We had a we had a really, you know,

Speaker 2: good And we had been running Jerry Jacobs out there, and he had been our best quarterback. Yeah. That says a lot about that team. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And now here we are. I was wondering if we might call it back. He although he just retired, but I don't I don't think he that precludes him from coming back if needed. But, it's it's, yeah. Anyway

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's I don't know. I I think it it's weird that, you know, people are, like, ignoring that they brought back ruckus in, that they did, in fact Mhmm. Like, the primary crux of the off season, Brian Branch is hurt. Kirby Joseph is who knows? Let's fill those holes, and they did that. I actually think they did a pretty good job there. Like, they did, in fact, bring in Roger McCreery. Yeah. Pretty good starting corner. He's he's a slot, but that that's a starting position. Right. Like, they drafted Keith Abney. Everybody everybody freaking loves Keith Abney. And by the way, he played well in mini camp. No pads on, but, like, I like what I see so far. It's not like they were caught with their pants down, like, that there's not appreciable players on this team. And I look at so I one of the things I was looking at and got asked the other day. I think it was yesterday on a radio spot. I don't remember which one it was. But they asked me, like they listed off, like, three quarterbacks who are available in free agency. I'm like, ain't one of those dudes is better than Rak Yesen. Like, not in this defense. Yeah. Like, what what do you want them to do to sign somebody that you would have laughed at them signing two weeks ago, which is who's left?

Speaker 1: Like But they're gonna have to because just the initial state of injuries, you know, they're gonna have to. And Yeah. But just just just know one of the three wise men isn't coming to watch Jesus get born for this one. We're just we're we're getting a Wow. Sorry. It's Christmas in July, brother. Wow. It's I'm there's no one walking on water that's coming out of this team at quarterback position. You're just you're gonna have a depth player that's gonna be there when the inevitable injury bug hits, and that's I think that's where we're facing.

Speaker 2: And and but we went through this last year because with the legion of whom and, you know, a couple of those guys can play. Nick Whiteside has shown that he he at least deserves a shot at at this job in training camp. I think that's where they're at. Again, I I get people it so mutual friend of ours, Mac Robinson, next, text me not twenty minutes after Terry gets gets charged and gets arrested. The motion I comes, he's like, what do you give us for for for Denzel Ward? I'm like, oh my god. Can you can somebody else start this? Like, my god. And and, like, I understand the sentiment, and I understand people, like, people are thrashing around trying to find some way to salvage anything positive out of it. I get I think I get that. But don't don't be that guy who's like, you know, Terryon was the worst quarterback we've ever drafted in the world. He was worse than Jeff Okuda. And now you're also out of the same side of your ass saying, we can't live without Terryon Arnold. And there's a whole lot of that going on, Chris, and it's really pissing me off. That's why I have a stress ball tonight because I have needed it this week.

Speaker 1: We are

Speaker 2: all the people who are doing that specific thing. You cannot freaking hate how and say declare how awful Tyrion Arnold was. Irreplaceable. Oh my god. The season's tanked because we don't have Terryon Arnold. And there is so much of that going on, Chris, and it pisses me off.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I think the key part of this is we're gonna survive without Terryon Arnold. I don't know when we won a Super Bowl. I didn't know if we were gonna win one with him, but we're gonna have to. And the secondary has been the the secondary has been a question because of our safety issues. Right?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: That's created real questions. That's I kinda wanna double down a little bit as we're talking about the draft. You better have a good rush. You better have a really, really good pass rush because that's the one thing that can help shore up a bad secondary quickly.

Speaker 2: It can.

Speaker 1: The and the other side of it is is oddly, I think this is gonna put a lot of pressure on the offense.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna

Speaker 2: have to get all control,

Speaker 1: and they're gonna have to score.

Speaker 2: I go the opposite way. And this I I talked to Lomas Brown and Anthony Pulinos on their show on WJR the other night, and I reiterated what I said. And I was talking about this in mini camp with other Lions reporters. I want them to get back to trying to win games 37 to 30 instead of trying to win 28 to 24. Just go out there and protect your defense by lighting up the opposing defense and putting pressure on the opposing offense to try and match all the firepower we've got. And we did that when Ben Johnson was here, and we didn't do it last year, and we suffered because of it. I want that to come back.

Speaker 1: So I I'm I'm with you. But there's gonna be games where we don't get the ball first, and the other team marches down the the field and scores. Right? Yeah. And we're gonna be we're gonna be playing catch up or equalizer for a long time. Right? And if we just lightning score, lightning score, we're gonna wear that defense out so fast that there's just gonna be no chance. You know what I mean? So I think there's gonna be a lot of games where, absolutely, we just pound, pound, pound, pound, pound and and and score like demons. But I also think there's gonna be games where we need to be able to hold on to the ball to give those guys a rest, especially if they're if our secondary is that beat up, as much running as they do in a game, they just need rest. Yeah. Yeah. They do

Speaker 2: their hydration break like in soccer. I can't believe they do that. Like, call it a commercial break for what it is, people. Come on.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you, Riz, for saying that out loud.

Speaker 2: It's okay.

Speaker 1: Give me the magic spray. I'm down. Hold on. Okay. I'm back. Ready to play hard. Okay.

Speaker 2: I watched England earlier today. I have never seen anybody more Draymond Green than Harry Kane. And I don't know anything about Harry Kane, but that dude whines non freaking stop. I like, I'm of English descent. I have have a predilection to to root for England. Yeah. Like, my god. I I'm not I don't want that guy representing me. He just cries about every Oh, he touched me. Stop.

Speaker 1: Drove me crazy. I I will say, though, and I've gotten DRC. Since my injury, which I think I'm I'm I think I'm almost well, the bones are healed. Still soft tissue issue.

Speaker 2: Good. The the

Speaker 1: it's it's like, yesterday, I was putting my shirt on on my shoulder. Just I couldn't lift my arm over my head. So it's a month and a half later. Right? I have a whole new found level of respect for soft tissue injuries. It's like, come on. Get over it. Like, oh, no. Oh, no. These these are they could be really, really serious and painful. Anyway, yeah, this is this is a this is, anyway, this is let's let's let's let's rewind a little bit. Let's get to this this quick question from Terry Gator guy because go Gators. If if we had a tech guy, we'd we'd pull him up too. Don't worry, Richard.

Speaker 2: That's that's okay.

Speaker 1: How aggressive is our new OC for your strategy for this this this score and lightning blitz or light blitz blitz creek? I don't know. Can you say that as far as attack? I don't think you can. But, you know, that's that's what we're looking for.

Speaker 2: Sound like a song?

Speaker 1: Yeah. There you go. Okay.

Speaker 2: He he will he will keep the throttle down or throttle up, hammer down. Gotta get my metaphors right or analogies, whatever. It's been a long day. He understands the idea of and and like there, Chris, there will be times where they're gonna need to, you know, hand the ball to Gibson Pacheco and go on a 10 play 80 yard drive. And I just I believe they could do that too. But I want them when like, I don't want them trying to manufacture rest for the defense at the expense of offensive aggressiveness. You know? I I want them to keep attacking, much in the way that the greatest show on turf Rams did when you know? Look. That defense wasn't good, but they had playmakers. And that's sort of what the lions have now. Like, that lions defense, there are there's talent on this defense. Aiden Hutchison, Jack Campbell, first team all pros. Like, you got you got talent there. There are playmakers on this defense. They just have to make one or two a game. That's all they have to do, and you can win. The Rams back in the day proved now that was a long time ago, but they proved that you can do that. Look at how New England got their last like, their their defense was opportunistic. You can make things happen that way. Yep. You don't have to have you don't have to have the Texans' defense. You just have to yeah. You have to be able to get one stop or one momentum changing play, and then your offense to just freaking ram it down their throat. It's a mindset. It is. We're gonna go and we're not gonna if it's third and one, you you don't know that we're gonna try to run and just pick it up to give our defense more risk. We might throw the bomb at you. Like, that that they got away from that last year. And that's what I want them to do, and I do think that Drew Petzig is a guy who I don't I don't he's not Ben Johnson level of of ruthless, and I mean that endearingly. But he is certainly somebody who is not going to back away from trying to score more more

Speaker 1: frequently Yeah.

Speaker 2: Than what we did last year. And last year, no. I I think last year, some of it is that John Morton just wasn't good with it. Some of it was, I think, that Dan Campbell saw, you know, when he was running the offense that, my god, man, my defense, like, I gotta protect him. I gotta extend this drive. You know? I gotta do do things that, you know, take away from from being aggressive enough on offense to to do the defense. And I I think the defense I do think the defense is better enough this year that that he doesn't necessarily have to do that as much. And that's that's why I want you know, go out there and have that mindset that I don't care if you score 30. We're gonna score 40. If you score 40, we're we're hanging a 50 burger on your ass. And they they don't they didn't have that last year, and they did in the prior years. And I want that back because that's how you're gonna win with this team if the defense is bad. I actually don't think the defense is gonna be that bad. I think they're gonna be better than last year. I think they'll be middle of the pack, but if they could be positive in turnover ratio, I think we're looking at some things here.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanna go to your we've got this, what's it called? The Arthur Fonzarelli. Who was talking about Arnold? Someone mentioned earlier. It's kinda funny. Arnold, the, he owned the, the diner. Right? But, anyway, we need the defense to create turnovers, and that was a problem last year. It absolutely was.

Speaker 2: 100%.

Speaker 1: To Riz's point, on defense, Hank Tylik is gonna is gonna come in come into his own and really start to prove his worth this year. He he said a really strong offseason. I think you're gonna see his name a lot more, called a lot more while, while this team's on the field. That said, again, you can't shell up and and play I I'm just gonna call it prevent, but it's not a prevent. You know? You can't try to just be you can't as a defense, you have to take risks. Let me put it that way. You have to take risks. You have to go gambler. So it is you rely on that pressure. You rely on that line, maybe a maybe a a blitz package or two or five or 10, and you they just have to hawk the ball on the defense. And it's they're gonna get burned. It's they're going to get burned doing that. Getting burned, though, does get them off the field too. Let's hopefully, the offense is doing its job. Right? But but the that's the only way I think for a defense. And I say that Tarion doesn't change at all. But with Kirby out, with, Branch out, right, you just have to be absolute hawks out there and go blah blah blah blah blah blah. It's it's it's it's gonna be really wild to see. So, I and, again, it's so funny because this time of year, we make predictions, and we we find out that, oh, yeah. These guys are really smart because that's why they get paid all this money to be coaches. Right? But just looking at it right now, I just I don't feel like playing a, a defense that isn't gambling a bit is going to be the way to do it. If you're just trying to limit your exposure, you're gonna get exposed. It's like when you golf. Don't hit the water. Don't hit the water every time it goes in the water.

Speaker 2: Right? Water's not there, Chris. It's not there.

Speaker 1: Yeah. No. That's how you go through it. It's going to the fairway. It's going to the fairway. Oh, man. Alright. So let's talk about let's go back a little bit. Let's reverse. Riz, talk about the charges and what it is. For folks that for the few folks that haven't heard, what is it that was stated about?

Speaker 2: So he has been charged with felony kidnapping, felony felony armed robbery, and some related charges that from a incident where he allegedly orchestrated that some associates of his would lure people two people that he believed robbed him at an air robbed his Airbnb in the Tampa area and lured them there with the promise of sex. And the woman has already plead guilty to this. So that that's, like, I I can't think of her name. But it's like, she played guilty already, and that actually was one of the things that directly led to the charges against Tarion. But and they beat the guys up. They they robbed I don't know. Like, they took they it it's not a good situation. Like, it's it's it's it's a it's a crime. Yeah. And now Tarion

Speaker 1: That's the bomb.

Speaker 2: Even the even the the the detective who was in in charge of the case when when he was on the stand, stated very clearly that Tarion was not in the apartment. The the what had happened, the the woman lured or, apparently, the guys went in expecting Saxon and said two guys jumped out of the closet and started, like, give them the business and everything and, not not that kind of business, but different kind of business.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And, Tarion was allegedly in a car either on a FaceTime or on a chat with the guys that were in there that it was going on. Now and and, again, the the the detective, I I think his name was Barnett, said that Therion like, his voice is not visible on the FaceTime or face whatever it is.

Speaker 1: Right. Right.

Speaker 2: But because he was the ringleader, he's charged, and I don't have the thing up in front of me, but there's a specific doctrine of Florida law that he's being charged with. And by the way, I learned today that Michigan doesn't have that law. Like, so if he did this in Michigan, like, he'd still be in trouble, but he wouldn't be in

Speaker 1: This trouble.

Speaker 2: Level of trouble Yeah. Which you you gotta obey the laws where you're at. Know that important see? Yeah.

Speaker 1: Ignorance is not a excuse.

Speaker 2: But it's yeah. It it is as as somebody says here, it is Goodfellas type stuff. It is straight out of a mafia movie. Gangster wannabe. It's it's, you know, I I I I just I had just finished reading a book about an Azerbaijani mafia don who tried to go straight. And it they're like, my god. Like, this is there's so many parallels here. Like, did he read this book and to get his ideas? Like like, what the hell, man? So that's what he is being charged with. He is being held well, he has a $1,000,000 bond.

Speaker 1: By the

Speaker 2: way, there were a lot of people that were talking about how this was such a win for Tarion. Like, he's got $1,000,000 and the charges are still, like, like, that's not a win, y'all.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: The win would have been a couple of the charges got dropped or lowered.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: None of that happened. Hayden win. He the if you wanna say that he he's get he gets a victory because he doesn't have, the ankle monitor on. Okay. Fine. He's still paying to get out of jail and, will be watched. No. It's

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, he's paying a lot. It's cost him a hell of a lot. Yes. It's cost him millions of dollars, and that doesn't even include legal fees. Right? Right.

Speaker 2: And the I'm sure those lawyers don't come cheap. I've never actually been charged with anything like that, so I can't speak to the legal bills that are on that, but I assume they're staggering.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, god. Yeah. Interestingly, power just blinked in here. And other than a quick little fling of the light, everything was okay. Spent a lot of money to make sure this shit stays together when the power goes out, man. It's up, like, fifteen seconds. I was like, oh, shit.

Speaker 2: You you are in, in hurricane land.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Of course, it's not tropical this time.

Speaker 1: Well, and I just wanna say my injuries happened well after this whole thing. I was not involved, but, we do have some Terry on merch or something. So, this is all in my neighborhood. This is all Yeah.

Speaker 2: So you you live do you live in Hillsborough, or do you live in the one that's north of there?

Speaker 1: I'm I'm in Hillsborough.

Speaker 2: You're already in Hillsborough. God. Wow.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's it's like, it's a huge county too. I mean, it's Yeah. Like, the cool the school district is the county. It's the fourth largest school district in the nation. Right? It's it's gigantic. And you got it all. I mean, you got it all, including, you know, the Florida laws. But Yeah.

Speaker 2: And you know, the

Speaker 1: place, man.

Speaker 2: I I was in Florida last week. I was in Orlando, and I turned the TV on. Is that Friday morning? That was Friday. It happened Thursday and Friday or Saturday. Like, the morning news block, it was the last story in the a block of the news. I'm like, oh, this isn't good. And and, like, because Orlando and Tampa, like, they're nearby one another, but they're not really that way.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Like, they're as far apart as Detroit and Cleveland are, basically, driving wise. Geographically, they're not, but

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: It's the death race. Before. Yeah.

Speaker 1: The no. It's the four is the death race, man. It's, like it's actually the deadliest stretch of highway in the nation.

Speaker 2: That's that's not surprising. But, yeah, it's, I'm

Speaker 1: taking the

Speaker 2: train. It's just I did. It, it's so avoidable. It's so stupid. What? Like

Speaker 1: Yep.

Speaker 2: And and that's that's what's frustrating is, you know and I know because I I know the agents who have who have some of them who have put this on. Everybody stresses, be careful who you're around. Understand that they do reflect upon you, and, you know, stay above if you've gotta sever ties with people that might be a bad influence on you Yeah. You've gotta do that. And I I

Speaker 1: I know people who do. Lions players. Thanks, w m w two. If you guys need help while you're down here, you need to know a little bit about the well, I'm I'm I'm happy. Let me give you a hand just to avoid situations like this. Let's, smarten up. Or does a crazy play do this? Okay. So we know the charges. Right? We we we we talk about that. Let's talk about Tarion as a man. Right? And this there's gonna be there's gonna be speculation in the in this in this section, folks. So but you're, Tarion. It seems like, at least, you've been taken by surprise by this whole thing. Your whole world has been turned absolutely upside down in two and a half weeks. Right? Yeah. What does this do to you? Like, everything you've worked for we talk about players who are in the bubble, and they get cut. Right? And every year, the media right around, you know, August 31 is remembered. This is people's jobs. They've worked their whole lives, and then they're right back, yeah. Cut that dog three weeks later. Right? They don't they don't care once the season starts. But, Yeah. This guy worked his whole life to get to here and to do this, and it was absolutely I don't wanna say it was taken away from him. In some in some means, it was. But, I mean, he was a participant, it seems, in some way or another. So we're all it's all alleged. But as a as a former athlete yourself, mister Vizden,

Speaker 2: no expert class.

Speaker 1: You're you're still an athlete. With all the time, the and your son. I mean, how much time, and your daughter both, it's just too much time in athletics, to have that just taken away through a a a a series of bad choices, right, a bad couple of days, whatever. I mean, what does that do to you as a person?

Speaker 2: It's it's it's awful. So I I I know I did actually have some of it taken away for medical reasons, and it drove me crazy. And I'm nowhere near professional. I've got just some old thoughts now, but I can't fathom what what my life would be if I couldn't do what I like to do and do what I have chosen to do. And that they'll tear on. Again, you're right. He's worked his whole life at this and had done a pretty darn good job. I know there's a lot of people that are gonna roll their eyes and say, oh, he's soft. He's awful. But better without him, like guy worked to be a first round pick, and, like, it wasn't a reach. Like, he he belonged in the first round.

Speaker 1: He was gonna play as long as he wanted to.

Speaker 2: Had he had he lived up to expectations? Nope. Nope. Was he close to doing that? I I will give a a hearty maybe. He he said it at his when we were talking to him, it didn't he came. He felt he was playing his best football right before he got hurt last year, and it was really starting to turn the corner. And the tape validates that. I agree with him. I was hoping that we would get that guy, but now we don't. So now we collectively lose out on it, but but him, man. And then again, because because it's so atypical of his behavior. Like, this is not who Tarion Arnold normally is. It just it got away from him, and he's he's paying for it. And that's There's an aspect of it that

Speaker 1: has to that isn't very often covered or spoken about, but he's just turning rookie age. I mean, he's a young kid. You know what I mean? He's a young kid in a in in a in a big boy's world. I know all these guys are when the rookies, but he was young when he came out. And, just think about what as as you get your grow into your body and your body comes its physical peak. Right? He had top he had top end available. Right? He had he had ceiling. Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No. Just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No. Just Duracell. Remember, GOATs only trust GOATs because they're built different, and Messi only trusts Duracell.

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Speaker 1: Waiting for him to to reach just physically. And he he very well could have been something incredibly special. And, this would have been the year that we saw it too. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. They the table was very well set for him to be that guy. And, you know, now now now now let's say he's cleared, and he he does what or or the Greg Hardy situation, back when he was with the Panthers when he got convicted of assaulting his girlfriend, and I don't really like to go into the detail. I've heard

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: What he did. He should still be in prison, in my opinion, for it, but he that he wound up getting cleared out technicality, and he wound up playing in the league again.

Speaker 1: Just really quick, Riz. If you wanna feel good about Greg Hardy, watch his last UFC fight. He got knocked

Speaker 2: out Did he?

Speaker 1: Cold. It was great,

Speaker 2: And nothing flashed. A bitch.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And, it was fantastic. I I I when I won a little bit of karma play to see the world is the the world can't be right. I just watch him over and over getting fucking lights out.

Speaker 2: I I might have to venture into the w what is it? UFC. UFC world. Thank you. I I miss MMA is not my thing. Just it's just not. But Terryon could conceivably get back and be in the NFL, probably not in 2026. I would suspect that since the trial isn't even scheduled yet, it's probably not gonna start until mid season. I think that he will wind up being like, he can still wind up on the commissioner's exempt list, but and and no team's gonna touch him even even if he's cleared because you were just, like, you were just on trial. All of our fans watched you and have heard everything that was going on. Like, that's a tough sell to a fan base unless you really, really don't care.

Speaker 1: And A harder sell I don't think because I think a a a significant port portion of many fan bases, and and 10% is a significant portion, just so people know, would would say, okay, if we had a better football team. I think I think that's that's

Speaker 2: And that's the justification with Deshaun Watson in Cleveland, and it hasn't worked out, although he is gonna be the straight quarterback this year.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: It's scary to know him a little straight face, but I digress. But, like yeah. So some team probably will take a chance on him at some point, but it's gonna be with a very short leash. And it's gonna be a lot of pressure on him to be great right away to justify the risk in PR that they're taking Yeah. That the team is taking. And that's that's that's difficult, man.

Speaker 1: How do you talk a game of character and grit and accountability, and you earn your position and all that, and then you give a guy a pass on something like this. Now the other side of it is, Arthur Fonzarello said, what happens if a month from now, it's it it's thrown out. Right?

Speaker 2: That could happen. I

Speaker 1: it it could, but I highly doubt it. That's that's the thing. I highly doubt it. Now let's let's let's go. I think that's an extreme edge case. If it happens, then holy cow. What the hell kind of reaction did the lions have? Right? There there's a whole lot of questions you'd have to have about the decision making there. But I think both with their kinda their character kinda that whole thing that they have and just the the diligence they did. They would not have been hurt to hold on to them now to see what happens. You know what I mean? It's not like they were they they were they were, you know, lightning out to make some moves as a result of clearing, you know, an extra roster spot. Right? So they could have rode this out. It it it seems like maybe they knew something, or maybe my guy absolutely just lied to him. You know what I mean? I mean, that that's very well potentially. So I don't know. Again, all speculation here. Right?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: But it it it would be if if if in a month that he's all out and free, it's gonna be hard for the team. Right? And and we have to all sit here. At one level, we're watching this knowing that, you know, we we don't have as much information as the team does. And, so I have a feeling they were caught by surprise. Just, like I said, from what I heard and what Because it's like

Speaker 2: What what status changed between when he was arrested Yeah. And when the pretrial hearing that we all watched on Monday happened?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: What happened was that the more info. With the story that the police side of the other side of the story from got out. That made the lions act. So something is amiss in between the time that he was arrested and that. And that, yeah, that either he either the story that he told the lions wasn't the same thing that came out there or the lions just realized that maybe this whole thing isn't just worth it. We don't wanna look. Like, we don't know when the trial's gonna be. We're this is gonna be every question. Carlos is gonna write every day on this. We don't need that shit. Like

Speaker 1: And not no. Don't forget about not Parker.

Speaker 2: Legitimately no idea that he was a Detroit guy until

Speaker 1: He was. Nice. I don't know. He's under some rock. Whatever.

Speaker 2: Whatever. Yeah. It's

Speaker 1: So if I wanna speculate, though, the lion's action here is is is a result of, new information.

Speaker 2: Right. Something's changed. Something's had to have changed. Otherwise

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: Right. They would've they if if they were if they were that serious about, like, that he's repping them badly, they would've fired him or they would've if I fight yeah. All intents and purposes, fired him when he was arrested. Why did they do it when they did? Something happened. Something pushed them to make so there was an impetus there on Monday that made them change their mind or made them convince them that, okay. Now now we do have to get them.

Speaker 1: And times can tell. That's what that's what

Speaker 2: we're not gonna know until we get back and, like, training camp is twenty seven days twenty six days from today. Season. So, yeah, we're we're not gonna know anything until then.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And and time will tell. And we'll we'll be you know, we're gonna judge what we hear on what's going on, but it's something changed. Something had to change information wise for the team at that point beyond just the trial. There was no need to make that move then. They could've waited even a week. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Waited until until the trial was set. Like, the the there's so many like, they could've waited for the NFL to put them on the commissioner's exempt list, and they didn't do that. Why? It's worth it to them to potentially eat $7,000,000 this year in cap room to get him off their team.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: That's not a move that you make spontaneously.

Speaker 1: This is interesting. And, Armand, the new age, I think they they just did him a solid. He he needed the excuse of playing in the NFL to get the bond. I think that's what got him the ability to travel and no no, bracelet. And and the thing now is now that he's not on the Lions, they're petitioning to take that freedom away. So they may have done him a solid. I I don't know. You know, we don't know. And it's it's it's it's entirely possible. I just I don't know. It it that that in a way, that makes sense. I just don't know if they would do that after all this thing went up until that point. You know what I mean? They don't owe him a solid at that point.

Speaker 2: What do they owe him other than, like like so just from a cap standpoint, they owe him the prorated portion of his signing bonus. They can't get away from that because he got that money already. But, like, everything else will eventually get voided if it hasn't been voided already.

Speaker 1: There's Fonzie and Ralph Mouth going at it with, like, old happy days insults. It's in the chat. It's freaking hilarious. To

Speaker 2: pull the chat up somewhere.

Speaker 1: With me. Up your nose with a rubber hose, Ralph Mouth. Oh my god.

Speaker 2: You know you know, there are generations of people, Chris, that don't know what you're

Speaker 1: talking about. No idea what I'm talking about. No idea. I'm starting to enjoy that a little bit. So or at least get used to it. Alright. So we we have that effect on him. Let's let's talk about the the coaches.

Speaker 2: Does love Chachi.

Speaker 1: The coaches in the front office. The effect there.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: These guys, as we talked about, have made promises about character and accountability and all that. And they have a situation here where they acted exactly according to what how they said they would act.

Speaker 2: They did.

Speaker 1: There is consistency, and that's good. And it's hard to do that with a first round pick of the value that he has in this team. And I'm just gonna put a thought out there because it's he he can think many things at once. Right? And the unfettered absolute Lions fan that is me is just make an exception. Come on. Just make an exception. We we we gotta win, man. We gotta win. Yeah. It takes an element it does take an element of absolute character and and, grit. Virtue. Virtue. Thank you. To to hold true to your compass like that and make moves like that. You may burn yourself, but I don't think they're making these, these decisions without information. Right? And I think about Dan, he is absolutely a player's coach. He will stand behind the guys whenever he can. But if they put him in a position where he can't, he won't.

Speaker 2: Don't violate trust, man. Don't don't that's the worst thing you can do to Dan Campbell.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And this is where, like okay. Arthur Fonzerelli sit on it, but here we go. I would love to hear you guys address the fact that they're setting standards that could come back and bite him. Meaning, what have happened if Saint Brown's girlfriend calls the police on him? And that's interesting because I the so if she calls the police on him for abusing her to the you know, within an inch of her life is way different than if they have an argument and he said, I'm gonna

Speaker 3: kill

Speaker 1: you, and then didn't do any never touched her. Right? Neither one's great, But I think the element of what the, the punishment is is those are two different worlds. Right? People say things in the in the key to the moment that maybe they don't mean or whatever. Right? They curse to call people's names. There's a difference

Speaker 2: between, you know, saying you're gonna do it and doing what Kareem Hunt did, where he grabbed a girl by the hair in a hotel and dragged her down the hallway and kicked at her.

Speaker 1: Not allegedly.

Speaker 2: Yes. It's on video. You can watch that. I I I don't suggest watching it because it's freaking disturbing, but it's and that was what led the chiefs to cut him. There have been other chiefs who have had some unlawful misgivings, and they've stood by them because they didn't raise to that level. It it it has to be proportional.

Speaker 1: Who would who would even sign a guy like that after something like that?

Speaker 2: Oh, that would be Cleveland.

Speaker 1: Oh, god. Well, at least they wouldn't get a criminal social conduct, massage getter, and sign somebody like that.

Speaker 2: They are they are a piece of work.

Speaker 1: We all fell on this team. Okay. So coaches, I I think look. This may hurt the team, and it's a tough standard that they've created. But they they stood up for what they have said they would stand up for, and I think that credibility will look. It's gonna go a long way, and I think it only matters if they if they aren't winning. And I think they're a little bit up against the wall already after last year's performance that they have to win. This is the the the hard part of that is the magnifying glass starts focusing that little beam of sun into a point, and it's gonna make things really, really hot if they don't if they don't pull out the wings.

Speaker 2: You think you think this ups the pressure on Dan at all to perform better this year?

Speaker 1: 100%. Yeah. I think I think the pressure's really high already after last year. Because it's like, okay. You can have a bad year, but you have to bounce back. Right? You have to show that it wasn't a fluke. Right? You're you're still you're still a young head coach in that you haven't done it before. I believe he has the capability. I believe he's the guy that can absolutely do it, but he has to prove it. And now with a situation where you've done this and you've stayed true to your your guiding principles that you've put out, that's great. But if that hurts the team to a point where it costs them

Speaker 2: Well, and and the only like, you you have to couch us with the fact that, like, this we're talking about this. If Tarion were in fact found not guilty or charges got dismissed, then he would be available to play in 2026.

Speaker 1: Fair. Very fair.

Speaker 2: That that's that's the only way that you can really judge on that.

Speaker 1: Sticking sticking with the the happy days theme, Jeff. Monday, Tuesday, happy endings. Deshaun Watson thrown in there. Alright. Alright. So okay. Coaching staff

Speaker 2: why they don't cover the Browns anymore.

Speaker 1: Let's talk about the roster. We've talked a little bit about the positional impact Mhmm. Of Terryon being away. What about the other players? What about the other guys in the team? Because, again, we go back to the idea that there's some there's a guy in Twitter that and I don't know that he was even a teammate, but he was a he was a, like, division 60 three player. He there who was very unhappy and is totally in the Tarion camp. Right? Maybe a friend, maybe not. Who knows? Whatever. But people are tribal, and I don't I don't blame him. Right? He may know him. He may have, you know, history with him, or he just may be an absolute fan and trust the guy. Right? I I I don't know what the what the ties are, and that's okay. Right? That's okay to be, kinda lined up like that. People are tribal, and they and they find their things. And, I mean, you see it all the time. People excuse terrible behavior for, well, they're on my team. Right? I don't mean just in football. I mean, you can see it in politics. You can see it anywhere. Like, it's as long as it's their team, we're we're appalled. But if it's our team, well, you know, this was just a minor infraction of, you know, momentary lapse of judgment, that sort of shit. Right? So I I I I get that. But you're gonna even have kind of a little bit of a schism of sorts of players who in a group like that, everybody doesn't like everybody. They're on a team, and they do a job sometimes together in spite of the fact that they might not like each other. Many of them, they do like and and enjoying that team mentality. But just in within an organization, there are naturally little divisions and tribes. Right?

Speaker 2: Absolutely. What

Speaker 1: does this do to the roster for the people that are in Ontarian, the people that maybe aren't in Ontarian? What does this do? I mean, does does this even affect? Do they just move on and forget about it? Or does this kinda tweak the locker room at all? I

Speaker 2: that's a good question. I don't know the guys well enough to to really give a good answer on that, to be straight. Yeah. But you have to think that there are some people that are like, why like, I don't want a knucklehead like this. We can't trust them anymore. You know? And trust is such a big thing. Yeah. And, you know, that he when when everything that this organization and and by the way, the players are saying it too. It's about focusing on football and just football. And then Tarion does something like this. And this was their message going back even to at the time when this when the thing allegedly happened in February. Like, the the the we we heard this theme coming into the the combine. Like, that's that's what it was all. It was all business. And it sure sounds like from talking to the players a couple weeks ago at mini camp, they like it, and they're buying in. And if you're not down with that, you're probably not gonna last long in this locker room. So I think that most players are probably going to be you know, they're probably pissed at him. They're probably upset for him as a brother that they've, you know, grown and loved. But at the same time, you know, he's not there anymore. We gotta we gotta we gotta win football games.

Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna I think

Speaker 2: that's where they're gonna look.

Speaker 1: I wanna throw something at you, and and I'd love to get your reaction because I think this is a little bit of the Dan Campbell experience and why he he believes that this was the right move. And I think we saw it with the early Lions teams and the talent they had. Culture overcomes talent. And and and and and we that's kinda we saw that with with, you know, as well as Jerry Jacobs. And I'm I'm gonna call him out again. I love the guy to death. Right? It's just didn't go the way we wanted. Right? But Correct. It's, the culture in which they lived allowed a guy like him to play well above for a long time where he should have and get chances they didn't. And they gave that team chances in places they that the Lions never showed before. And it was all about the culture and the attitude. Right? And you can say that that kind of culture and attitude can break This is and this is part of the Dan Campbell's job kind of thing I think about is people will lose faith if that melts down. Right? If you continue, you know, you can continue as a cheerleader, rah rah rah, and say all the right things, but you can't build a team or you can't scheme a team into the wins that it needs to be contenders, people are gonna fall out of it really quick. Right? You can't cheer guys a 100% of the time into victory. But this is a case where the loss of Tarion, knowing you're gonna go from, like, say, tier one to maybe now you're when you start walking down the whole depth chart, you you you move down to one and a half or tier two secondary. Right? Would I mean, I'm just using those numbers for relative relatives. But you believe the culture and the trust, which is important as hell for people in the secondary, the trust of that team and those players of amongst across each other and two of each other can overcome that point five or whatever it is to your drop in talent. Right? And there I think there's something to that. I think that attitude and culture and there's like, they talk I don't want to talk vision boards. Mission, USA is up one o or Bosnia. It's gonna be but, I think that that plays a important part in the the the how a team operates. We've seen what caustic, locker rooms do. Right? And you you don't often see caustic locker rooms in the Super Bowl. It just you just don't. Now they might melt down after, but but you don't see it up until that point. So I think the bet might be a good one. But, again, that bet is now in the Dan Campbell accountability space.

Speaker 2: Yeah. He's gotta show that it can work his way

Speaker 1: Yep.

Speaker 2: And that that you can win. And which calls the question, how would we judge this season a success? What's the bare minimum that would be required to say, you know what, Dan? You did a good job this year, and we feel good about you. But still going like, obvious obviously, some of us, and I'm I'm one of them. Like, I I can't even fathom getting rid of Dan Campbell even if this year goes south. Like, who are you gonna get this better? Like, come on.

Speaker 1: I I'm with you. I am so with you.

Speaker 2: Because that that's how we got Matt Patricia, by the way. Because they realized, okay. We've we've hit we've hit where Jim Caldwell we've hit his ceiling. And being a first round playoff loser is not good enough for this team that we have, so we're moving on. Well, they didn't get somebody better than him, and it all went to hell. And now now people remember, somewhat with rose colored glasses, the Jim Caldwell era. They forget that he consistently botched end of game situations horribly.

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Speaker 2: Ziggy also dropping coverage. Let's have 10 guys on the field twice. Come on. That's right. People forget that shit. Those are brutal. I don't.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You can't you can't let those things go. Right. So no. I I I definitely wouldn't mind.

Speaker 2: So what level of success does Dan have to? Do they have to win a playoff game? Is that enough? Is going fourteen and three and winning a game in Ford Field and then losing to the eventual Super Bowl champ, is that is that good enough?

Speaker 1: I think this year, it is. I I the the playoffs have to happen, number one. If you win in the North if you win the North, it may excuse a first round exit on if you can look at the talent or injuries or something, you can point to something besides strictly coaching. But if your players are there, you absolutely have to win a playoff game or two. Okay. One playoff game, I think, takes a lot of the heat off. But

Speaker 2: Especially if it's the Rams.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's gonna be hard. He's in he's in a tough spot. Right? And and I I agree with you. I'm I'm one to say let's let's just play out a little bit, and I'll I would probably hang on to him a little bit longer. I knew Patricia had to go, but I was like, I knew how the process had to play out before they they could get rid of him. Right? I knew that. I would actually play this one out longer personally with Campbell because I think he's had a a couple of out of things are out of his control that have affected it. But I would agree. I I'm I don't think I'm the majority, and I don't I don't know. But, he we you know, if we go nine and eight again, I don't know, bro. I don't know. I I think it's gonna get real hard in that front off. I think he'll be back at nine and eight.

Speaker 2: Yeah. But I

Speaker 1: think it's gonna be really hard up there.

Speaker 2: So and and I will go back to a team of my youth. The Cleveland Browns who had the drive and the fumble coached by Marty Schottenheimer, who I I love Marty. I I I developed a relationship with Marty late in his coaching time.

Speaker 1: Really?

Speaker 2: But he was so good, but couldn't win the big games. That was the that was the book on him when he was in with the chargers when he was with like, it followed him around.

Speaker 1: To be fair, that's a a chargers thing too, not just a Marty thing, but

Speaker 2: It is. Wrong. You're not wrong. It is. But what happened when those teams got rid of him? The Browns cratered for a year, then they got back but couldn't win. The Chargers fell off the map with a very talented team. That couldn't get back. Like like, you you have to be careful in and and sort of the the counter to that is the Bengals kept Marvin Lewis forever being a coach who could get his team to the postseason but not win a game. Yep. Because they were worried that they were worried that they would like, the next guy won't be as good, will will fall off. So there's gotta be a balance in there somewhere, and I and I I don't know where that balance I as we see it here on July 4, I don't know what that balance is. I I can think about it and probably come up with it better in time, but I I don't want to, Chris. I don't wanna have that happen.

Speaker 1: I'm I may mess up the timing on this, Riz, but I don't think I I did. And I I just we have a player who just announced I'm I'm I'm shifting topics here. No. I'm gonna hold on. Hold on. We're talking coaches, but I'm shifting down topics a little bit. We had a player that's just announced an ALS diagnosis. Yes. And Johnston. Yeah. Terrible. My god. Absolutely terrible. And I know you have personal experience with it. We we you mentioned in the Slack, you know, that we were we were together.

Speaker 2: You and you and Sandman were in the car with me when I found out that my brother-in-law had passed away from ALS. Do you

Speaker 1: remember Sandman's response after he got home? Speaking of head coaches.

Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. I do.

Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson. Telling you, we do it. Making Hugh Jackson

Speaker 2: recite on Cameo Limp Bizkit's Nookie. And you did it to his credit.

Speaker 1: It was so funny. Oh, man. Sorry. No. Anyway, that was Talking about all those coaches.

Speaker 2: Like, you have to know my relationship with Sandman, but, like, like, that's very contextual. But it was it it was it hit the right spot, man. It really did.

Speaker 1: Yes. He's magic. Sandman is a very, very special person. Yeah. Aaron Pfeiffer. Just wanna it just comes up here. Twenty three months of membership to the channel. Thank you very, very much. Cool. Twenty three months. What's wrong with me? The show must be pretty good. Go USA soccer. Yeah. Got it, Aaron. Thank you, Aaron. Really appreciate you, man. That's No. It's sad. I have

Speaker 2: I have a giant TV, like, right there, and it's not even on. I should have it on.

Speaker 1: But the rules I've got it on my iPad right here because if I put the TV on, the whole room blinks. Oh, man. Alright. So we've got coaches, roster, team. Just kinda looking and getting through this. We're we're I think we're through the Tarion piece. There'll be news and there'll be pieces, but it had to be addressed in some level or another. And I wanna I wanna close the book on it, Riz. I Good. This is the thing where one of the things that made me so frustrated about it is this time of year, there's nothing going on, and a lot of the folks in your industry have to they they have to write. They have to. It's it's it's the nature of the beast. You. And they need anything to talk about. There is people doing who's got the funniest name challenge and shit like that, right, in this part of the year. And it was it was like, oh, okay. You guys are digging fucking deep here. But, this one this one is one of those things that will get it it'll be a a a cow that lives long past its prime, and somebody's just yanking on the udders hoping to get a little more milk out of it, man. The most uncomfortable garbage. And that's the one of the hardest parts was the timing and what I saw coming down as a result of this. So from our perspective, I I thought, and I know you you agreed, let's address it. Let's go through it. Let's try to cover all the different angles on it, and then let's just not talk about it unless something interesting happens. But even then, just cover the change and move on.

Speaker 2: I have, and I recorded, Friday's daily DLP will be a nice palate cleanser. I recorded an interview this morning with someone who has written a book about lion's history and how lion's history shapes your life. It's a fantastic book. Like, I actually when I recorded the interview and I told the author that his name is Joel Wachowski. He wrote a book called Honolulu Blues. Yeah. And and it will air. The book will be out soon. The interview will air Friday morning. But I told him when like, I had only, like, skimmed just a little bit. If he sent me an advanced copy by the way, thank you, Joel. I got to read, like, the first, like, 60 pages today. Like, y'all are gonna really, really like this book. I can tell you that right now. And just the conversation that we had, you're gonna like it, and it's something that's that's gonna be different and take your mind off of all of this crap for a couple days. So I'm I'm hopeful that we can continue to do that. The daily will feature we will have updated 53 man roster projections because that's one of the things that we do. I was, Chris, one of those people that had to write content that I didn't wanna write at this time of year. That was one that I still I I kinda like doing that one, so I I do that. And

Speaker 1: That's awesome.

Speaker 2: Thank you for not making me break down the NFL 100 list. I

Speaker 1: know it's I know One of the things, dude, that's so I mean, it it it's such a like like, we're thankful for each other. Right? Yeah. Like, you I don't know. It it was I in a weird way, I look at the what happened as a as a bit of a blessing, and it kinda freed you to be able to be you.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1: Do you. Definitely. And and and, like, that's all I think that's all anybody wants. That's all. I I I love to see the happy Riz that's running around now and not like I gotta turn out 16, you know, articles of shit right now. They're like, you know It was

Speaker 2: just last week last week doing nothing, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I did nothing. Yeah. It was glorious. It was I I was dad Yeah. To my daughter and husband to my wife. It was it was spectacular, and I I could never have done that doing what I used to do. Yep. And I didn't know that that was possible, and I'm very grateful for that. And I'm grateful

Speaker 1: that I'm out

Speaker 2: of that hole because I see, so I see what what is being produced where I used to be, and I don't wanna be that guy.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well and and that's the that's the thing. I mean, being able it's you don't get to be genuine in those kinds of roles. And I think people want genuine Riz. I think they appreciate it. Right? And it and it kinda sticks to, like, the how we've started this is, like it or not, it's it's who we are. Right?

Speaker 2: People

Speaker 1: don't like there's people out there that don't like that I laugh at my own jokes. Sorry.

Speaker 2: It's what

Speaker 1: I do. I do it all no matter what. People you know, it's it's who we are, and it's it's nice that we get to just be ourselves when you have the regular job by day where you have to kinda put the mask on and do the the corporate stuff or or whatever else and all other places. Well, here, we can just be whatever we want, and that's that's really freeing. And I love to see you be able to just kinda be be you without the shackles and the, like, we can't talk about it because you know what I mean? That's it's Yeah. It's nice. Yeah. It really is because it show it it helps show what kind of person you are. That's one of the

Speaker 2: things that's awesome. I think it's helped me be more of a fan in watching the team too. Yeah. Because, like, it was and I I've had this conversation with other people who were where I used to be, but also at other outlets that where you you are focused so much on

Speaker 1: one

Speaker 2: team, it's really hard to be passionate when you know that you have to be critical at the same time. And I I think everybody who watches the show regularly will know that I am still critical, but I am still a fan at heart. And I don't ever wanna lose that. And I it was it was very different covering a team in Cleveland that I didn't have any real emotional attachment to. Like, Texas, I I I I I root for the Texans. I like that team. I I would love Damico Ryans. Like

Speaker 1: And and and they're in AFC. Damico Ryans took a shit job that nobody wanted, and he's done fantastic. He's done absolutely. He is a far better coach than anyone gives him credit for.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I I have an attachment with that team, and I I I have been blessed to rekindle some relationships with some Texans guys, both behind the scenes and and in the media. Like, this is awesome, but I love covering the lions with a fan's eye to it. Yeah. And you're gonna see that I think you see it in some of the things that I write as well. We do still write things here. We're gonna have more written content too from not just me, which is kinda fun too. But it's it's fun to be able to not have to be impartial. Yeah. And I like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Because it's genuine. Last last bit, again, like, oh, I wanna talk about the AI thing. It came up a little bit. Somebody was, like, really disheartened by some of the artwork. And and I I my question was, fair enough if you don't like it, but I feel like it's it's better than the stuff we've been using for a while. It's hard none of us are graphic artists. That is not our expertise. And even to do those, the the the the ones we do that aren't great, it takes a long time. You know what I mean? It take like, it's way longer than it should because it's not what we do. This is just, like, you have to have a good art a piece of art. It's just part of the the nature of what the requirements are to put these things out there. Doing this allows, like, for Riz, we've we've laughed before about his his technical capabilities, which have gotten much, much, much better. But he doesn't have to write any code. He doesn't have to like, he just looks the content. He's able to to to dust up the content, change it up if he wants. Couple buttons pushes and it goes. And it allows him to just focus on the content. And that's what we're trying to get to. So welcome feedback, like, on the art. If you don't like it, whatever. Please give it to us. But understand, like, we're not none of our content like, I I could clone our voices or whatever else and put video avatars of us each there that you probably couldn't but that's not at all where we're going. Like, I've cloned myself already just as an experiment, and I I could be putting single videos of me talking about AI written garbage up and and do it. Right? But that's just not how we are. Our we we're talking about being genuine, and it's us. But all the you ready for this? Around what we do is kinda sidebar stuff that takes time, and we wanna take that noise out so we can focus solely on making content for you guys. So, again, if there's a way to make it look better, totally in for it. Right? If we if you don't like it, it's too busy. That's great feedback. The hate AI. It's not gonna help. It's not helpful. Like, we wanna make it good for you guys, but we also need to make time for us so that we can do this. So Yeah. We appreciate you guys.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. There there is a lot of talk about the music. Chris and I have talked about potentially changing the music for the Daily DLP. I gave him so we are not going to buy the rights to a Coheed and Cambria song. We're just not. We can't afford that. But I gave Chris the song that is sort of my, like, grounding song. It's Island from Goheed and Cambria. Yep. You might hear a change where the music sounds a little bit more like that song specifically, the intro specifically to that song. So

Speaker 1: Yes. Absolutely. And that doesn't come

Speaker 2: that doesn't happen easily either. There's a lot of things that actually have to go into doing that too.

Speaker 1: And that is absolutely on the list in the slow time to get that done. We've I'm making a whole bunch of different kinda changes to speed things up and make things better. That's coming. Gray, Bish, Brown, they're all coming back with with training camp. Gray's still getting settled from his move. So that's going on. Yes. So Drifter said, encourage you to change that. Absolutely. A 100% of that that's gonna happen. Aaron Pfeiffer, not sure if it's been said. The Lions need to embrace the greatest show on turf philosophy.

Speaker 2: Hey. Thank you.

Speaker 1: Yep. 100%. Aaron, you got it. Let's see. I think that and and, lastly, I'll just put this last one out there. AI couldn't replace Chris's fifth grade humor. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: That's for damn sure. AI AI does not get sarcasm. They don't get obscure references. They don't get non sequitur asides. They it just doesn't. Yep.

Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah. So there you go. When we when we aggregate content on the site written, that's and and and that's that's gonna be something, you know, that comes out of that. But anything you see that we produce here is us. The writing that says Jeffrey is and it's clearly labeled. It says this is AI, and it says this is by the DLP beat bot. If you see see something from there, you know what it is. It's it's identified as that. And if you just if you have a a philosophical difference and don't want, just skip past that stuff. If you if you wanna help the show, looking at it helps us. But, there's some really good stuff, and it takes quotes, and it it aggregates across all the pieces of content out there. Like, a lot of the blogs have done for ages. Right? And it credits them and gives them links and all and everything, gives you a story. It's just kinda creating that standard format. Yeah. 100%. Those links are going back to to a place where the information comes from. So yeah. Credit where it's due always, and we do they are.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: Children of the grave from it's a grave from Sabbath as an old, but it's a good word. A house we recreate Chris singing Cher and looking like Cher. Let's face it. Put my head on her body. It's a nightmare fuel. Alright. With that, don't forget about us on the Patreon that helps us do all this stuff. Oh my goodness. Patreon.com/detroitlionspodcast. If you get $5 or more per month in the Slack or in the Patreon, you get access to the Slack. Slack folks, for you, we haven't done a a check recently on on who's paid, and you don't get notified when your credit card kinda goes off, so I would check. That's something that's gonna start getting automated in the off season here too. So people that if you miss payment after a certain amount of time, it's gonna pull you out, so you won't have your access. So just keep that up

Speaker 2: and pay attention to what you're doing.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You will be welcome back in, by the way, if you happen to get, like, financially for that. Like

Speaker 1: Yeah. If there's a back. And if there's an issue, let me know. We've we've carried people through tough times and everything, you know, just because letting you know, because they hit something, no big deal. That's not a big deal. Feel free to communicate. We're you know, we're not we try not to be assholes. Sometimes it's inevitable. Go to Twitter at jeffrisden at jeffrisden. And also, you can see the Detroit Lions podcast, det lions podcast on Twitter. Same on same names on Blue Sky and Threads and all the other places that are out there. You can look us up, and we're all there. Insta. But the, the DET Lines podcast on x is the official kind of communique for what we got going on. See, you know, what's going on. You'll be the first to know there unless you're in

Speaker 2: One other quick thing. Rest in peace Kenny Cott from 971, the ticket. Yeah. Guy way too young. Man. Way too young. That's really impacted a lot of people that I care about, and I, I didn't know Kenny, but damn, man. That's that's awful.

Speaker 1: He was loved.

Speaker 2: Rest in peace. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Alright. With that, be sure to go to detroitlionspodcast.com. Subscribe to the podcast. Read some of the great stuff. More writers. I've actually got someone else to to send your way, Riz, who who might wanna do some writing for us as well. A lot of good stuff going on there. A lot of good thinking. And and the more folks who get doing that, the less I'll pull the AI writer straight. And even that, it's like it's the whole the whole reason for that is because of how the all the search crap works. You know what I mean? It's frequency and and and

Speaker 2: It's unfortunate, but that's that's that's the way it is.

Speaker 1: It's all the mechanics. It's it's oh, god. Anyway, that that go there. Subscribe. Join the Alliance Podcast, all that stuff. Riz, thank you. So glad to get back with you. I'm glad it's a shitty subject we had to talk about today, but now we're done. We can move on and get into the fun of being Lions and do some good stuff. So, thank you all for tuning in. We're gonna see you next time on the Detroit Lions Podcast. Remember, no pants, no toasters, no hot tubs, and no problems because we are your Detroit Lions and Reddit connection. Thank you all. We love you.

Speaker 2: We'll see you very, very

Speaker 1: soon.