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Speaker 4: Hey, everyone. Welcome to DLP. Thanks for joining me here on the the daily Detroit Lions podcast, your Detroit Lions are ready connection. We have a guest today. We're gonna get right to him. By popular demand, this man joined us before the the draft and broke down a lot of prospects for us. And a lot of people liked us, so we got him back. So Chris Chapaso from the Draft Gradebook, you are back joining us on the daily video. Welcome, Chris. It's good to see you.

Speaker 5: Hey. Hey, Jeff. Thanks for having me. Like I said to you just before we started, it's always fun to, like, do draft podcasts during the draft cycle, but then it's even more fun to come back and be like, let's talk about these actual pictures. No more speculation, and we can run through this entire Lions class. I will give a little teaser. I really, really, really liked what the Lions did, and I'm not just saying that because I'm on this show. You can go to draftgradebook.com and see my grades and see where the Lions rank. It's pretty darn high.

Speaker 4: Awesome. Well, you set it up. Let's get into it. Blake Miller, first round pick. Not much of a surprise for a lot of us, although it did seem to catch a lot of national folks a little off guard who were expecting somebody different. But, he he definitely fits the grid. The general consensus that we have in Lions Land is that he's a very good scheme fit as the starting right tackle right away. I wonder where you're at on Blake Miller and and him being a lion specifically.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I think you've framed that really, really well, Jeff. I was fortunate in a way that I wasn't working at CBS during this draft cycle for like, I was the last eight years. So I didn't have to do a mock draft every week, but I'm saying that in in that. If I if I did, I probably would have sent Blake Miller to the lions over and over again. That would have been one of those picture like, hey. New mock draft, not changing that. Because what you just referenced, the scheme fit, the power, the size, the length, the run game ability, what he can do against bulrush's anchoring just with how much natural power he has, I thought was truly one of the best fits in the entire first round. I was a little confused why there was some national pushback. I'm like, oh, I you know, this is too early, or I don't understand this. If Pena Sewell is moving to the left side, Blake Miller at right tackle, I think, is perfect. And what I'll do during this podcast, I will give you my NFL comparison for all of these picks. It was Braden Smith. Awesome. It was Braden Smith who has been really good at right tackle for the Colts for a long time. I I remember watching him at Auburn, and I'm watching Blake Miller, and I'm like, this is Braden Smith two point o, who Braden Smith's never been, like, an all pro, I'm pretty sure, but he has just been darn good, super reliable, durable, has helped the Colts during the Jonathan Taylor era be one of the best power running schemes in the NFL. So that was, again, a pick that I thought was really, really good for the lions and made sense with what they needed along their offensive line.

Speaker 4: You know, you bring up Braden Smith. He was a guy that a lot of lions fans were like, oh, that guy's a free agent. He we should probably look at him. Mhmm. And, one of you know, he he's with the Texans now, and I think he'll do well there. But, Yeah. I, I I like that comp. And, again, Blake Miller, if you're moving Panay, which it sure felt like the Lions wanted to do moving in the left side, you needed a right tackle. And while there were other left tackles, potential prospects who might have been higher, Blake Butler was a very easy fit for Detroit. So I'm I'm glad you see that too.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And if you look at to the size that he has over 34 inch arms, he had a 32 inch vertical. Like, these are areas that don't necessarily indicate, hey. This is a guarantee that this blocker is going to be good. But when you're six five, almost three twenty, your film is really good. You test really well. He had a, a 40 yard dash right around five seconds. It's usually those players that have the good film experience, and then they tick that final box either at the combine or their pro days. They're like this the truly the safe players. I know that we like to to kind of roll our eyes when we hear, oh, every offensive line pick is a safe pick. But Blake Miller, to me, checked all those boxes. So whether they would have picked him in the middle of the first or traded back or even moved up for him, I thought just like what you referenced, the scheme fit to keep this as one of the best offensive lines in football made so much sense with this selection.

Speaker 4: We're all happy with that. Let's go to the second round pick. Derek Moore from Michigan, a familiar player for a lot of our fan base. I like it. I don't necessarily love it, but he and, again, this was one I I'll do my own here a little bit. I mocked him to the lions back in January in the second round. This was another easy one to see. Speed to power, but he also has some power, as a guy who can step in and, oh, look. The Lions had a dire need. I know they signed DJ want them this off season to to help, you know, replace Marcus Davenport and Akademi Mohammed and Josh Paschal and various other interlopers who just haven't worked full time across from Aidan Hutchinson. I like this as an opportunity to get a long term solution there. I do I I hope you agree with me on that, but you can you feel free to disagree.

Speaker 5: No. Agreed. I I think the only negative with Derek Moore is I believe that the Michigan Pro Day, his vertical and, like, broad jump were not very good. They were actually, like, below average. But I saw someone exactly that you referenced, that he was speed to power and the pop at the point of attack, whether it was setting the edge or bull rushing or trying to win with the pass rush move, so much shock in his hands. So he's someone that, I had graded even a little higher than this, and maybe I I I should have factored in the pro day late was not spectacular. And but I did write in my scouting report, like, this is not a rare athlete. This is not Von Miller around the corner. But I think when you do need good edge setting ability and I think weirdly with the Lions, or I guess maybe it's actually pretty logical, that their offense and defensive lines, even though it's opposite sides of the ball, I think just in general, Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes want, like, truly want to be one of the most physically imposing trenches on both sides of the ball in the NFL. That's the type of player that they'll get with Derek Moore, who may never be a 70 or 80 pressure per season type around the edge, but he can be a 50 to 60 pressure, six to ten sec type guy, and be really good against the run. By comparison for him, I went with a range comparison. I think on the low end, he's another former Michigan guy, Josh Uche, who might have a little more juice than more, but a very well coached player.

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Speaker 5: And I think top end, if the development within the coaching staff is there, he can be like a DeMarcus Lawrence type player who's never won with holy crap that was insane athleticism or change of direction, but hustle and power in a similar frame to Derek Moore, I think that's the high end ceiling comparison for Derek Moore.

Speaker 4: I like that one. I hadn't thought of that one. That's a that's a good conference. That's why we have you on the show because you help open our eyes to things. We'll go with, next pick was another Michigan guy, Morris teammate, Jimmy Rolder. A guy who felt like rose up late in the draft process, sort of as he did in college. Your thoughts on Rolder and how he gets to Detroit.

Speaker 5: Alright. So I'll start with the analytics side for this. So Alright. He's to not to not go too deep into this, three or four years ago, I as a way to help myself get better with my evaluations, I built a NFL draft algorithm. I call it RESN, which stands for Reverse Engineered Scouting Index Number. Just kind of puts together fill or production and pre draft athleticism for players to give each player a number. Jimmy Rolder was my number one linebacker in this class off the ball. Wow. Wow. And it really and and with this, like, system that isn't there's nothing objective or there's nothing subjective baked into it. It's not like my film grades go in. You do get a lot of those, you know, guys that get picked in the fourth or fifth round near the top and and first rounders that are near the bottom has a pretty good success rate over the last five or six years. I mean, it actually goes back to 2018. I kind of retroactively did it as well. And it matched the film. Like, seeing someone enrolled there, and I kind of touched on it with Derek Moore. Very well coached. Like, beating blocks at the point of attack. Most like, that's almost a lost art for off ball linebackers today. But he understands I need to take on this blocker. I need to shut him and get to the ball carrier. Did that, I think, as well as any linebacker in the class. His coverage ability, he's not gonna run with, you know, the elite, the George Kiddles, or even Kenyan Siddiq, fellow rookie, in terms of speed. But the zone savviness, the ball skills, the awareness when the ball was being thrown in his target area, I thought were excellent. And vitally, this is I don't want to say a lost art because it's a fundamental element of playing linebacker. Such a reliable tackler. He is not flying in, diving at the feet of the running back or the quarterback or on a wide receiver screen. He gets there and, you know, as as someone that's a big basketball guy, he really breaks down as he's getting close to the tackle. He is making sure that he is staying square to his target, and I think that's why he was one of the best tacklers in the class. So my analytics algorithm loved him resin, and I loved him on film. So I thought he was more of, like, a day round two or round three selection. The Lions get him in the fourth round at one eighteen, and he's only been in the division for, like, a year or two. My comparison for him was Blake Cashman, another former big ten guy from Minnesota Minnesota. Vikings. And just similar player, big time athlete, not like the best athlete in the world, but very good, and just ticked all the boxes emphatically with what you would want to see in terms of refined skill at the linebacker spot.

Speaker 4: Man, if we get if we get Blake Cashman, especially, like, the early version of Blake Cashman before he moved on, like, enrolled her. Yeah. I think linebackers are really gonna like that. That that's a good football player. And, again, just the the fact that he doesn't run past the point of attack, that he doesn't let guys get I I love that. And so so, Chris, you've you've noticed about me. When I talk about safeties, I embrace the safety. Like, you are the safety valve for the rest of the defense. But Mhmm. If you don't have to get to that because the guys in front of you aren't missing, there's a whole lot of value in that. And that that allows your safeties to play freer and not have to be so much of a safety of if if that makes sense. You know? And then Roland's a guy who does that very well. And with Jack Campbell next to him, I can see I can see that working very nicely.

Speaker 5: Yeah. It's almost like I I almost went with the Malcolm Rodriguez comp for Jimmy Rolder. I, like

Speaker 4: And bitch.

Speaker 5: Lost him. But yeah. And and I think he's he's a a little bigger than Malcolm Rodriguez. And I think he probably is a little bit more refined. But I think when Rodriguez went from, what, six rounder and was playing really well early on, it's because he did all those fine details very well. Like, he was reliable tackler. He understood how to either avoid blockers or beat blockers to get to the football. Pretty rangey, good athlete. I felt very similar with Roldo, but I think he was even more ready. He he is even more ready to step in and be a starter or a full time player next to Jack Campbell on the defense.

Speaker 4: That's the that's the hope, man. He said that spot's open. Going deeper onto the day day three guys, there's a pair. And I between Keith Abney and Kendrick Law, you sort of sort of the the opposites and contrast. Like, Abney, everybody loves this guy. I'll I'll let you wax poetic on on Keith Abney in the pick for Detroit because every person I've had on this show since the draft has loved the pick, and I I hope you're on the same page.

Speaker 5: Yeah. No. Totally. That was one of my a plus picks, for the Lions that I thought Yeah. He was similar to, Jimmy Roller. I had, like, late round two, early round three grade on him. My comparison was JC Jackson light. Not quite the athlete of Jackson's caliber, but very, very smooth in his feet. Can take him maybe an extra second to change directions. But in terms of playing the football aggressively in the air, mirroring wide receivers, and definitely gives you that versatility where if you need him to man up, even in the slot, every once in a while, he can do it. If you need him to be a savvy, zone defender and peel off an an, outside route back to the inside or vice versa, he can do that as well. Someone that maybe isn't the greatest tackler because he's not super big, But in terms of the suddenness that I think teams really are looking for at the quarterback spot with all these awesome separators at receiver today, to get him in the fifth round, I thought, was a massive steal.

Speaker 4: So he is NFL ready and could see the field right away. Kendrick Law, wide receiver from Kentucky, not so much. But there's potential there. And I want you to talk about the the potential in in Law because there he is one I don't I'm not sure that he sees the field on offense this year, but special teams. You do see that there's a path for him to to eventually contribute on offense too.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I feel like every team needs one of

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Speaker 7: These are

Speaker 5: the gadget type players. Now I will say a lot of, like, you don't see one of these type, like, jet sweep only gadget screen wide receivers on every team because I think it is somewhat of a luxury. Like, when you have your Amun Raus Saint Brown, your quarterbacks in place, your offensive line is good, then you can have that type of player. And the Lions have had that in the past. I'm a Bills guy. Like, when the Bills were really cooking and they had Diggs and Cole Beasley and John Brown, they had Isaiah McKenzie, who, like, didn't catch a lot of passes, but was still utilized in the offense as a jet sweep guy. And I love Kendrick Law because I'm someone that although I understand, like, in today's NFL, separation is king at wide receiver. I also emphasize, though, yards after the catch ability. I've just watched the forty niners and the Bengals and the Chiefs the last five or six years. They are excellent as a team collectively after the catch that they can take a Patrick Mahomes, you know, shallow cross, and it turns into a 20 yard gain. So the lions have that with Amerenas Saint Brown. We've seen Jameson Williams create after the catch down the field after he catches a dig or a post that he can really hit the jets. Kendrick Law, I mean, when you're talking about missed tackles forced, like, he was one of the best receivers in the entire class in that element. And that's someone that plays like a running back, low center of gravity. You're not gonna get him wide open on his own a ton. But if you can scheme him open or give him a jet sweep where he has space, he's gonna bounce off of a lot of safeties and corners on the outside. I kind of viewed him not quite to the level athletically, but Mike Cobb was an older Randall Cobb. And why I say that is because I think the big reason why Randall Cobb or part of his success in Green Bay he was one of the youngest players in that draft in, what, 2009 or 2010. Kendrick Law is a little older. So what we saw last season at Kentucky, he was a 23, 24 year old playing against not all younger players, but a good portion of his opposition was 21, 22, 23.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Beyond that, I just maybe it was the scalmet or helmet scouting of the Kentucky, comparison between those two, but that's kinda how Randall Cobb was used at Kentucky, and he grew in to a a larger role as he became a better route runner in Green Bay. I agree with you. There's not a ton of spots available or targets available in this Lions offense. But if you just say, look, we're getting to use you as a returner or on special teams. And maybe by October or November or December, we're gonna scheme you two to four touches a game. I think that would be really smart because we've seen a lot of these Deebo Samuel comparisons over the last five years that have ultimately not really happened. This is a player at his size, five eleven, over two hundred pounds, that is a pinball off tacklers once he gets in space. So I think it would be really, really fun to see him utilize alongside with the Lions' other weapons as really this super niche type of player for the Lions.

Speaker 4: I like it and, you know, just to further the the Randall Cobb thing, you know, Randall Cobb was a quarterback when he got to Kentucky and had to learn wide receiver on the fly and it, you know, you you see lost started out as a running back at Alabama. Mhmm. You see that when you're watching him. He doesn't really run routes per se. He sort of gets out there, but that can be taught, and that can get worked on. So I I I appreciate your upside view on him. And Isaiah McKenzie, another one. Like, if the Lions get the peak Isaiah McKenzie that the Bills had, it can be Lions fans are gonna be very happy with that.

Speaker 5: And especially I mean, you're getting that in the fifth round. Like, that's a huge return on investment. There's not a hue like, a long history of, like, day three or later wide receivers that have been really good. But recently with Pukunacua, Khalil Shakir, Romeo Dobbs, like, there there's the round four, round five wide receivers that have gotten more of an opportunity. And maybe they aren't perfect wide receivers with the complete skill set, but I think this offense, how creative it's been over there the last three to four years, even last season, losing Ben Johnson, still very creative. I think he can fit in and give you that good return on investment even early on as a fifth round pick.

Speaker 4: Let's hope so, man. Alright. Skyler Gil Howard, defensive lineman from Texas Tech. I don't really wanna call him an end. I don't really wanna call him a technical defensive lineman. What did you see in Skyler Gil Howard?

Speaker 5: Alright. Jeff, you're more of a draft, original gangster than I am. So you gotta tell me why why was there not more love for him during the pre draft process? Because I'm watching David Bailey. He was hurt? He was hurt. Okay. Maybe. I'm watching David Bailey. I'm watching Lee Hunter, his defensive tackle mate there at Texas Tech. Really good defensive line. Romello Height, I think, was a third round pick. Really, really good front. We're like, man, these are all draftable players for sure. And Gil Howard, to me, had the biggest arsenal of pass rush moves and understood how to utilize different counters. And, alright, I'm gonna show a straight arm and then I'm gonna, you know, rip. Or I'm gonna show that I'm gonna do a cross chop, but I'm actually gonna do something else. He was very finesse. And I think that gets somewhat of a or it kind of comes with a negative connotation in the NFL. It's all violence and all aggression. But we've seen, like, the the defensive linemen that are really physical and they have the finesse game, those are the JJ Watts and the Aaron Donalds and the, you know, the best pass rush move players on the inside. Chris Jones, I don't necessarily view him as someone that only wins with pure power and size. He understands how to utilize his hands. So I think because of Gil Howard's injury, you're probably right, and that he couldn't test. That's why he wasn't viewed how I saw him on film because I'm not factoring in injuries. I I don't know the diagnosis of these players or the prognosis of how long they'll ultimately be injured. But he was someone that I had a third round grade on. I thought he was either low end Adam Butler, high end Malik Collins, who has stayed in the NFL for a long time only because of his pass rush ability and has been really good as a pass rusher when healthy. Skyler Gil Howard, a little bit on the smaller side, but in today's NFL, if you're kind of like Kendrick Law, you're a niche yak type. And for Gil Howard, if you're just a upfield rusher, you can beat two hundred and eighty pounds and still be a quality player. So in the sixth round, I thought this was another really good find by Brad Holmes.

Speaker 4: I'm with him. I like the Malik Collins. I hadn't thought of that one either, but that that fits, because when Malik has been healthy, he's he actually played incredibly well for Cleveland last year against Detroit. And I think, if another one, If it clicks for him, Lions fans are gonna be very happy with it. And it like you said, it's a six round pick. It's a low investment. If it doesn't work out

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Speaker 4: Come join us. Sam's Club. Like, 60% of six round picks don't get a second contract. Like, that's that's just the world that we're in. Yep. The last guy is a guy, and, I still haven't watched a lot of him yet. I don't know if you have. Tyre West, from Tennessee didn't have a lot of there was a lot of pre draft type on him. He barely made the consensus board. He was a guy that I didn't personally rank. I wonder if you've seen anything from from West at all or if this was gonna be a mystery for you too.

Speaker 5: It's it's kind of a mystery. What I think is interesting about him is his size. Like, he's just under six two and two eighty three, and it's like it's like, where is he gonna play? Is he inside? Is he, like, a big power, shorter armed edge rusher? Is he someone that's just gonna set the edge? So he's someone that I did not evaluate pre draft, so I'm not gonna come on and tell you, you know, all these things that that I'm just reading from other people. So there's there's not a pre draft eval. I'm just the most interested in, like, where he ultimately slides in. And like all teams, I I feel like it's pretty common today that the Lions probably like versatility. And to say, hey. You're gonna play three technique or four eye or five technique or you're gonna play on the nose for a couple snaps. Just to be able to utilize someone, pick that late in the draft at a bunch of different spots in training camp in the preseason to see if he is truly versatile or if he's really good in one area but not as good in the other spots up front, then that's probably the type of flyer that you're taking that late in the draft.

Speaker 4: Yeah. And the Lions have a type with that. You know, obviously, Gil Howard, interesting body size, interesting, you know, versatility. MacKay Wingo fit that. To go back in time, John Kaminski was that guy. Josh Paschal was that guy.

Speaker 5: Yes.

Speaker 4: They they they they seem to keep trying and fitting these guys. And West, from what I've seen, does fit that bill of a guy who can, like you said, be a power end, you know, lining up, you know, on the outside shoulder of the out of the the tackle, maybe even heads up on the tight end, but also kick inside and and play in even go into the a gap on occasion if you need them to. So fingers crossed, man. We'll see.

Speaker 5: One last point that I wanna reference. I don't know if you're gonna ask. But if you go to my site draft grade book, I still have it in post draft mode. Just the landing page are all the draft grades. I will, at the end here, let you know and let all your audience know that I had the lions with the best overall draft. It's a minus. And and I did it, and I did not do it subjectively. I I did it with I I used my my pre draft grades where I had those grades compared to where the players were picked so you would get a a reach or a steal or the right value. And then I did, like, a lot of extra weighting. Like, I weighed the earlier picks more than the later picks. And then so if you were, like, reaching, quote unquote, in, like, the fifth or sixth round, I didn't dock it as much as if a team reached early in the draft. So it was like a sliding scale all the way down using one of the draft trade charts. And I didn't do also, like, grades like a, b, c, and d, all the, like, letter grades, meaning those in the a had a 90 or above because I found that when I first did it that way, there were, like, no teams that were even getting into the nineties. So I kinda scaled it down one letter grade. Any team in, like, the low to mid eighties, that was an a and down from there. And the Lions were the only team that I had an a grade for, a minus. The Cincinnati Bengals were b plus right after them. New York Jets, were also b plus. They were a few points like, tenths of a point lower. The Patriots were the fourth team, and the Commanders were the fifth team. So it was funny when you told me to to, like, come on again. Like, hey. It's always fun to come on a team specific podcast and just wax poetic about how I loved a specific draft. But you can look, like, right after the draft, like, I think two hours after I had all the You're not faking it. I'm not faking it. It was a minus for the lines. I loved what they did, and that's anyone that's just listened to the last twenty minutes here understands, like, from Blake Miller all the way through, Skyler Gill Howard, I loved the value and the fits and the specific players that the Lions got in this draft.

Speaker 4: That's awesome. So I'm gonna ask you, who's at the bottom? And was it Minnesota?

Speaker 5: They were at twenty eighth. And and so I go on Matthew Coller's podcast, Purple Insider. He's just a guy Oh, yeah. Mine. And, like, I had to do the same thing on on the polar end. I was like, guys, I just did not like it. And because I had these up right away, like, an hour after the draft, Vikings were c plus. They were the twenty eighth. I'll go through the rest of the NFC North, where Packers were b minus. They were sixteenth, and the Bears were right next to them, b minus, with the fifteenth rank in terms of my draft grade. So the and the last team, weirdly and I know they kinda do, like, crazy things and it's been very successful for them. The Seattle Seahawks. Some of their picks, I was not a huge fan of. But I will say some of that was baked in that I didn't try to dock teams too much with draft grades. If they picked a player that I didn't evaluate, like, if it was on day three, I just gave it like a c plus or a b minus. So there was a few of those, and we know that John Steiner likes to, like he's un he's unconcerned with the consensus board, like, a

Speaker 4: lot of times.

Speaker 5: Going back to, like, even, like, the James Carpenter pick ten years ago, we're all like, what? Like so and it's obviously worked. They're the reigning Super Bowl champions. Texans, I didn't love. Chargers was a little weird. Jaguars, those are the bottom four. But I guess it's good to kinda put a bow on it by saying, yeah. The Lions had my highest grade and the only a minus grade that I gave out.

Speaker 4: Chris, that's a perfect stopping point, my friend. I I I really appreciate you coming on and coming back. The fans demanded it. Everybody liked your first appearance, so we I'm like, we gotta get Chris back. I must reach out. You you were right there. So I totally appreciate you coming on and wrapping up the draft. Tell people one last time where they can find your work.

Speaker 5: So draftgradebook.com for everything. There's team hubs. There's the grades that I just referenced. Just be sure to look at the top toolbar. You can see, like, my prospect rankings originally, big board, horizontal board. If you wanna go back and look at previous years, you can certainly do that. But then the team hubs, you'll just get the lions, all their draft grades, all of that there. And I'm also I just started the as the site producer for, Buffalo Rumblings, SB Nation's bill site right after the draft. So I'm doing my old school bills work again, which is a lot of fun. And then I'll certainly be diving into the draft again next year like you will as well, Jeff. Very good. No mock drafts, though. No mock drafts, which is awesome.

Speaker 4: God bless you, man. Chris, thanks so much for joining us. We're gonna call that a show. Signing out. Be good to one another, everybody.