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Speaker 5: Hey, everyone. Jefferson here with your daily DLP. Congratulations. You made it to the weekend. It is Saturday. It is six 06:26. Not quite an Iron Maiden day, but close enough. My guest today will appreciate that reference. I will, bring him up here. This is my my dear old friend, Jared. Let's make us bigger here. Jared, tell the people about yourself, where you're where you work at, what you do. You are a brown sky, but you are more than just a brown sky as well.

Speaker 6: Well, I don't know. That's a really, wide ranging answer. Right? So, part of, SB Nation. So dogs by nature, we spell dogs, d a w g s. And so I've been covering the Browns now for about fifteen years. Then that's back when we met for the first time, somewhere in that range of our lives. Also, twenty five year experience as a mental health professional in the state of Ohio, so independently licensed with that. Amazing wife, cute dog. The baked goods she makes as why people like me in the NFL world, including probably Jeff at some level.

Speaker 5: The cookies. The cookies, dude. Your wife makes incredible cookies, and that's not a euphemism for anything.

Speaker 6: Not at all. The I I tell people, my wife's cookies is why I got to cover the Cavs. Like, literally, why I got to interview LeBron James multiple times in my life is because her cookies got me in. So, yeah, that's, you know, we we go back a long way as, Northern Ohioers as well.

Speaker 5: That's right. So so for those of you who, like, want an in into our business, having a wife that can bake is not a bad one.

Speaker 6: It's amazing. I mean, quite little I'll tell that real quick. I asked for Cavs credentials for you know, I was working for, I believe it was Fan Site Network at the time. They was like, we don't know you. Cool. Hey. We're coming to a game. My wife's a baker. I I'd love to drop some cookies off for you. Before tip-off, anytime you want credentials of yours. Literally, that was the communication before tip-off. So, cookies get you going.

Speaker 5: That's fantastic. You are, in effect, the Cleveland version of Jeremy Reisman, our mutual friend who we've hung out with many times together. That should give people an idea of where you are. So I wanted to talk to you, and I invited you in for a variety of reasons just because we're old friends. And and as we were talking before the year, in all the years when we've known each other and worked together, we worked together at Brown's Wire together for, I think, three years.

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 5: We've never done this before. Nope. Which is kinda crazy. But the timeline of the Miles Garrett because I think a lot of people in Detroit are sort of miffed that the lions weren't involved or don't appear to have been involved. And I have tried to, I don't know, throw a little water on that fire by saying that this was not something that the Browns, like, were going to do until very, very recently. So maybe you can fill me in on the timeline because I do remember when we had we actually had dinner with Jeremy in Indianapolis. Mhmm. Jeremy will verify this. And I asked, what's up with Miles Garrett? And you're like, he's not going anywhere or something to that effect. And at that time, that was true, but it's obviously not true anymore.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So at the combine, there's obviously always conversations. Pretty much about pretty much about every player. Hey. Anything changed on Miles? And the answer was no. Partially because of what the Browns, didn't think was gonna happen, partially because of what they hope would happen. You know, just all the the machinations of of what the world looks like in the NFL. The Browns just didn't have a plan to trade Myles Garrett, and they really still didn't, because a player like Jared Verst does not get traded. Right? So I've we've tried to many of us, including Albert Breer just earlier, on Friday morning, tried to give a valuation for a Jared Verst, and it's like, maybe a first and a third, maybe a first and a second, maybe two first, maybe more. Because a player on a rookie contract two years in, two years of all pro, defensive rookie of the year at a valuable position, right, and which is gonna be a key part of the conversation, does not get traded.

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 6: And so for the Browns, Andrew Berry's been really clear. No plan to be like his predecessor, Sashi Brown. John Dorsey's in there in between, but whatever. He you he's your guys' guy now.

Speaker 5: Yes. He is.

Speaker 6: He's no problem. He doesn't wanna be a a tear it all down kind of of GM. He wants to be aggressive. He wants everything to be about winning and just really didn't expect anyone to really make the kind of offer that was realistic, which then you follow the bouncing ball of, well, let's go ahead and move this back just in you know, this huge money back just in case a trade comes up. Hey. Let's see if the NFL will allow us to do five years of trades instead of three years. So Can I interrupt you? Yeah.

Speaker 5: It was that was that related to this, like, directly, or was that something that was just separate and coincidental?

Speaker 6: It's both and. So, the browns wanted the opportunity to let the Philadelphia Eagles, the Rams. That's probably the two teams that would have the guts to do something like this. They wanted them to have as many options as possible, but they also want themselves to have as many options as possible. Right? So it's I was Garrett and, look, for ease of conversation, it's arch Manning. Right? It's both in. Right? So if we Miles Garrett, we want teams to be able to give us as much as possible on how we see value, not how the old trade charts see value. And if we need to go get Arch Manning, we wanna have the opportunity to say for another team to say, we got three first round picks. Even if that first round pick is what would that be? Twenty thirty two? That won't allow that as well. Right? Yeah. Feeling old over here. So so that yeah. The training all kinda bounces the ball together, but, really, the key came down to the Rams were very, very aggressive. The Eagles were, communicative. The Cowboys tried to get in on it. Jerry Jones doesn't ever wanna look like he's losing a trade. They were never work that out. And the Eagles didn't have that young player. Right? They weren't gonna trade Jalen Carter. He's just a level above kind of a a Jared verse, type of player in position, and and even con contractually, that just wasn't as good for the Browns. So it really did come down to this was, do you have a stud at a position of value that in on June 1 would still interest us? Right? A young left now does not interest the Browns the same way a defensive end does. So you could really call this the Jared verse trade from the Browns side of things. I don't know actually, I I can be confident at this point. I don't think there's a player in Detroit that's anywhere near how the Browns value. Not saying anywhere is good, but anywhere near how the Browns would value Jared Verst.

Speaker 5: Right. At 25 years old, but you said, you know, defensive rookie of the year, incredible young talent. He really is. He's not Miles, though. But so the the conversations that we've had in Detroit circles are and and this goes back to last fall when you and I talked behind the scenes before the trade deadline and we had another person that we know who threw the name Jameson Williams out as somebody that the Browns might want at that time. They don't need him anymore because they they drafted two receivers. They're they're fine there now, but so that that got eliminated. But back at the trade deadline, we both heard the same thing that if the lions were going to be involved in any hypothetical trade for Myles Garrett, the Jameson Williams and two first round picks would be involved.

Speaker 6: Absolutely.

Speaker 5: And that obviously was a nonstarter. The Browns didn't have any really interest in trading miles then. Oh, by the way, he does have a no trade clause.

Speaker 6: He does. And what we from what we understand, all his no trade clause, obviously, there's control to that. He was not gonna turn down a good team. But

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 6: In the case of Detroit, if it ended up being Detroit had a really great offer and the the Rams had a really great offer, Miles is someone who relationships really matter. Chloe Kim matters. Right? And I will say this in the most vague way with no more information. One of the reasons he did not really actually force a trade last year was a was relationship or relationships, and, that that changed. Right? And so he he demanded a trade, but relationships really mattered to him. So if he had to choose, the Rams and Lions could have given the Browns the exact same, you know, great offer. He would have chosen LA because that's where Khloe is from, and that's makes more sense for him. Nothing against Detroit. Obviously, Cleveland and Detroit, we're talking about, you know, two towns that can be talked about in the same kinda negative light in Lakers who hated me. Yeah. Exactly. Right? You know, the battle of the barge. But Right. It really for him, it would have been about relationships. It would have been about not even really marketing opportunities. Just literally relationships. You would have been you would have taken the LA deal.

Speaker 5: Yeah. So I wanna get that this from a from a Brown standpoint.

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Speaker 5: New coach would have been Miles' sixth, seventh that he's played under a lot since 2017.

Speaker 6: Which is crazy because Kevin Savansky made it six years.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I I I know. Totally off topic. I'll just ask this real quick. How do you think Kevin's gonna do in Atlanta? Because I have my doubts.

Speaker 6: I have a lot of doubts. Yeah. I think they I think the quarterback position is it's a setup for failure. You can have yeah. You you can have all the rest. How is he gonna do it significantly different. Right? Which Yeah. You know, your your guys' offensive coordinator plays a little bit of that conversation too.

Speaker 5: Right? Yeah. We're gonna talk about Drew in a bit. But back to the Browns. Like, this is sort of, and it reminded me of the situation when the Lions traded with the Rams, the Matthew Stafford for Jared Goff. And for years and years, it was the Matthew Stafford trade. And now that Jared Goff has been the the most productive, but this is not hyperbole. He is the most productive quarterback at the end of the over the last three years. Now it's the Stafford slash golf trade. And I wonder if that's kind of the hope in Cleveland that it will someday be known as the Miles Garrett slash Jared Burst type trade.

Speaker 6: It is. I do think well, you know Browns fans are crazy. I mean, I'm sure Lions fans have a level of it, but I I feel like there's a uniqueness to being so passionate about a terrible team.

Speaker 5: There there there's I will say there's more delusion in Cleveland than there is in Detroit. Detroit people are much more realistic. Yeah. I I I mean, I say that, endearingly too.

Speaker 6: Absolutely. I think there's there's good to both of those. Right? I think what's interesting is that there are a lot of Browns fans who thought Miles was overhyped. Not that he wasn't great.

Speaker 5: Dude, always. Always. And it's never ceased to amaze me the amount of people that Miles was a bum. What are we paying him for? Like, that still happened last year.

Speaker 6: Like, I can't tell you how many times, you know, every single ESPN panel survey, you know, or whoever, and it's like, it's Miles and everyone else. I'd rather have TJ Watt. Right? Like yeah. So I think what's interesting is just weird. Yeah. And I but I think the I think Browns fans have also, kind of in the delusion, really like the mystery box style nature of things. It's actually why they're really struggling with this trade a little bit is Jared versus in a mystery box. He's literally a two time Pro Bowler and a defensive rookie of the year, but he's not a mystery box. So there is a part of, like, well, yeah, hopefully, maybe, but he'll never be Miles. Everyone knows that. That's just not possible given everything. But I think there's a hope that winning comes in the aggregate. Right? And, you know, in sports media, you know this. Some of it is just not even aggregating other people, but we just put a bunch of stuff together, you know, your daily podcast. Right? It it may not have one this isn't gonna be amazing. It's me. It's not one that's gonna just, like, hit sometimes. But, man, we're gonna put the work together and you're gonna put the work in, and that's gonna build something. It's kind of that hope. Are the can the Browns be the aggregators of the NFL? They didn't tear it down. I don't think Denzel Ward is on the trade block. He might be moved. But I don't think he's on the trade block. But can they bring it all together in a holistic approach and just grow their team in a way that can be lion's ish?

Speaker 5: Mhmm. Yeah. Can I interest you in a Terryon Arnold for Denzel Ward Swab?

Speaker 6: I think there's some legal issues involved that I don't want. I I prefer

Speaker 5: Can I interest you in a in would would the Browns be interested in something like that? I'm this is a question I I would not make that trade for the record. I I like carry on. I think he's got a bright future and and Denzel's health issues, chronic, do separation shoulder when he tackles a lot

Speaker 6: A lot. Yeah. His head is moving around a lot.

Speaker 5: But he's a hell of a player.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I think the Browns I mean, that is the Jared versus trade is is kind of the model they would use for Denzel. They would want a young cornerback and a third or fourth round pick style

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 6: Of train. So that's kind of what they would look for. Yeah.

Speaker 5: Maybe we'll give you a gently used NSRigstra instead.

Speaker 6: Thank you. But I but I think it's such a, like, and maybe the lie you know, I don't remember the construct of the roster, you know, when the Goff Stafford trade. I I love that analogy that you've used and, because I think that it's interesting to see that it's not a at least for the Browns, it's not a torn down roster. Right? Does Jared Goff take it from one of the best defenses in the league to one of the best defenses in the league? Right? Like, it might be instead of two, one, or three, it's six, seven, eight, nine. So I think it's just an interesting place for for the Browns and for fans who are used to either terrible or slightly less than terrible.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Now the Browns, the quarterback Deshaun really? Deshaun? Really? Really?

Speaker 6: So I I think the interesting thing is, what does Todd Monken believe about his quarterback situation? Right? You get your only probably, if we're being honest, his only chance as a head coach in the NFL. Do you want less than athletic, less than big, less than big armed Shador Sanders who can make really horrible decisions, but also has some upside? Or do you want at least knows what he's doing, maybe not always being able to do it, all the battlefield issues, all the injury issues, but has this the quickness, the arm, the whatever, and I will apologize. You're probably gonna get some dog barking here in a second. She has sat down for a walk, and, she gets really excited when she gets home, which is all good. But, you know, I I I think for Todd Monken, it's this is my one shot. I think the other reality is is can I just assume Deshaun Watson's probably getting hurt, and I can move to Shador Sanders easier than I can move to Deshaun Watson? So I think there is just some of that as as what I can do a little bit more. Like, we've seen quarterback run. Deshaun Watson is not a running quarterback. He's got he's a scrambling quarterback. And so I think we'll, I think it's just for Todd Monken. It's what gives me the best opportunity to not be one and done. Right? There's a Texan's coach. I can't think of his name. But there's a lot of people who think he's just gonna be like that Texan's coach that got one year and who he was out really, really quickly. So Yeah. Yeah. I think yeah. Unfortunately, we're holy. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're dealing with Monken not trying to save his job because he just he's such a ball you know, head first into a wall guy.

Speaker 5: He and and correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm going off my mom as my reg requisite Browns fan here, but he was not a popular hire.

Speaker 6: No. He he everyone and, again, I think this is back to the mystery box. It's they want the young guy. Right? They they want, you know, someone who, or they want someone who's actually proven. Like, there are people who wanted Mike McCarthy. Right? Like and I was like, I will I don't know if I'll walk, but I'll walk. Right? Like, I will not be on but there's a part where it's like if everyone and and Cleveland's done this, and you know this. You've covered the team. Cleveland has done the thing nobody else has done. Always. A lot. And it almost never works. And Todd Monken is 60 years old, and no one's ever hired him as a head coach in the NFL. Why are we doing it? Right? So, yeah, definitely not, the the the, you know, Shieldhouse would have been maybe the the best. Udinski, I think people saw him as too young because he looked like a child, and so there was a little of that.

Speaker 5: Shiel House looks like Solac.

Speaker 6: Yeah. He looks like Solac. Shiel House at least has a little bit more experience as well as playing, and so there was, you know, that. I think Monken because if if we're gonna hire an old guy, why not keep Jim Schwartz and keep Miles Garrett happy and keep the defense happy and all that, which obviously heard Schwartz talk this week.

Speaker 5: So what is going on with Jim Schwartz now? I have been out of that loop for a little bit. Tell tell

Speaker 6: So he asked

Speaker 5: Is he being paid by the Browns this year?

Speaker 6: That's a question I actually don't know the answer to, but he is not allowed to coach anywhere in the NFL this year. So he resigned. The Browns did not let him out of his contract, which is really interesting. I mean, you they they wanted and had Bill Callahan in a position and allowed him to go to Tennessee to coach with his son. Right? Like, even a totally different situation, which would be less likely to happen, and they let him out of his contract. They didn't let Jim Schwartz. And from everything we've heard very clear reporting, Jim Schwartz tore his office up when he found out Monken got the job. So, and then has acted like, no. I get it. I understand. But they wanted him to stay on as the defensive coordinator, which probably was a bad idea overall, given his personality and

Speaker 5: Todd's job. Did they not did they not meet Jim Schwartz while he was there for those years? Because, like, everybody in Detroit was like, oh my god. What are they doing?

Speaker 6: Right. Yeah. And and, like, you know, a good defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator does not make a good head coach. That those two things are not correlated directly. Those are two different skill sets. And, And, unfortunately, in the NFL, that's all we look at. Were you a good offensive, defensive coordinator? Does that make you a good head coach? Absolutely not.

Speaker 5: Thank you for reinforcing that point for me. I'll ask you this because Jim Schwartz still has a lot of fans in Detroit. Do you think he ever wants another head coaching job?

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Speaker 6: Yes. Because he's got some pride issues. I think he he's got such an interesting

Speaker 5: No.

Speaker 6: Really? I try to be subtle a little bit. Jeez. I think, you know, you look at his career arc, though. Right? Like, he kind of stepped away, and then he was kind of a consultant for Mike Rabil with the Titans and then, you know, came to Cleveland. Yeah. I think as a from a pride perspective, it's that. And so I think the hard thing is gonna be for him is he's gonna wanna be selective. He's gonna wanna go for head coaching jobs. But the Ravens, I think, were the only other team to to at least ask for an interview with him. I'm not even sure he actually interviewed with them. But he's gonna wanna hold out for that. But if you stay away from the league for a year or two, you're not getting a head coaching position. Right? So will he have the will he suck it up enough to go be a defensive coordinator someplace? Right? Will an a good team that, you know, heck, will Chris Schula out in LA get a head coaching job and then he gets to go coach Miles Garrett again for a year and then go back to a head coach? You know, I think there are some ways for that, but he has to be willing to what he would think is a step back, back to defensive coordinator, to kinda keep himself in line for a possible head coaching job.

Speaker 5: That makes sense. That matches. I wanna talk to you about, Drew Petzig, the new Lions offensive coordinator. We covered him together. We we were trying to work on our timelines of because Jared and I both worked for Browns Wire at the same time for a time before you moved on. And I think we both were there when Petzing was there.

Speaker 6: I I think that's right. Yeah. Petzing is such a he was he was an in like, he was one of those he's the quarterback coach. Right? Like, he he's a young quarterback coach. You don't generally get a lot of time with

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 6: All that. So he's his career tight ends too, and

Speaker 5: he did you know, he was And

Speaker 6: it's for a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 6: I think he's a really interesting one because a lot of people were really surprised when Arizona hired him as as their OC. Like, where did this guy come from, young, all of that? Obviously, not a lot of talent to work with, out in Arizona, so that's hard to judge. And now now in Detroit, you know, at times and you know this, offensive coordinator, quarterback coach, those types, it's hard to kinda pull apart how do they fit when they have an offensive minded head coach calling plays. But I think he is lined up really well with kind of the Kevin Savansky idea of more tight ends, make the run look like a pass, make the pass look like a run, you know, all of those kind of things. But he's someone who's interesting in the the way I understand him is he does really see the, excuse me, the offense through the quarterback. I don't know if he really sees the offense as a whole collective or if it's kind of, okay, quarterback, o line, and tight ends, everything else. Right? It it's more of a, I gotta get through this to get to this kind of thing, whereas I think other offensive coordinators think a little bit more holistically about how it all fits together. I think he's gonna be very golf, and then obviously he gives, and then kind of play it out. Everything has to fit around kinda golf. How do I get multiple, you know, thirteen, twelve personnel, that kind of stuff, just based on kinda how his brain works in the offensive world?

Speaker 5: Let's get this, going back. Now he was not the OC in Cleveland at

Speaker 6: Right.

Speaker 7: I

Speaker 5: wanna say oh my god. He went through a couple of OCs. Did he not?

Speaker 6: So he was tight ends quarterbacks, to AVP, then Right. Took the OC job at Arizona. Yep.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Okay. So that offense did not run a lot of well, they did run two tight end sets. You didn't see much None

Speaker 6: out of 13. Yeah.

Speaker 5: But I will go back in one of the constant laments that Brown's fans and those of us covering the team had as well. He had Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt on the same roster. And you know how many snaps they played together in three years? One. One.

Speaker 6: Yep. Yeah. It I think what's interesting about yeah. And I think this is the, you know, this is the Shanahan model, the you know, all of that that group is there's this stubbornness to model. Right? There's a stubbornness to this is what we do. And so I think stubbornness to model is gonna probably frustrate, but their belief is the model, the scheme sets the floor. As opposed to allowing the the talent to set the floor, set the kind of structure, we're gonna make sure our our scheme sets the floor. And then if the players can elevate that, wonderful. But we're gonna make sure there isn't a low, low floor for our players with our scheme, which becomes a little scheme stubborn.

Speaker 5: I like that. When you have as much talent as Detroit does, that's that's kind of it's weird that that like, it's it's it's different. Now he did have, at his disposal for a time, Odell Beckham Junior, Jarvis Landry, chief David Ojoku, Nick Chubb. The line was okay. Kevin Seidler, the line was there. Joel Betonia, one of my all time favorite players. By the way, any lean on what Joel's gonna do this year?

Speaker 6: No. So

Speaker 5: I'm sure you're getting asked that

Speaker 6: a lot. Yeah. And I've asked it a lot. So I was told that he was aware that Miles even back at the combine, he was aware that Miles could be traded, and that could play a role in his decision making. But the Browns have been, you know, Elton Jenkins is kind of the Joel Betonio variety pack kind of option kinda there. So, and the hard thing is I haven't seen Joel. Right? I knew Joe Thomas was retiring long before Joe Thomas was retiring because his belly told me. Right? Like, oh, he didn't have one. He out. Right? Like, he's done.

Speaker 5: He wasn't 20 like that.

Speaker 6: Amazingly. So I haven't seen Joel to know. It would be unlike this is this is very unlike him, which is, I think, is the really interesting thing. I will say, and I'll just be very honest just in case he goes to Detroit, Joel is a mole a little bit in in that he will let everybody oh, hey. You know, it's him and Kareem Hunt were very friendly with the media. That's why Joel has won the media award a lot. Right? I voted for him for it. With the media. But, yeah, it really it seems unlikely like him, but I can see the Miles Garrett trade him being like, wait. I want a shot at it. Right? And so Yeah. Let me get in shape. Let me allow people to potentially get injured or whatever. So, I mean, he hasn't filed retirement. He hasn't you know, the Browns have talked about him very vaguely. They've talked more specific about JOK without ever saying JOK is never gonna play again. Then they've talked about Joel Betonio.

Speaker 5: Yeah. JOK being, Jeremiah Osukoromo who has a, is it a hip or is it a knee?

Speaker 6: Neck.

Speaker 5: Oh, neck. Neck. Okay.

Speaker 6: Yeah.

Speaker 5: We're dealing with that with Kirby Joseph who has a degenerative knee issue, and we are very very worried that he will never play again. So we so many parallels between Cleveland and Detroit.

Speaker 6: It is.

Speaker 5: And even, like, you know,

Speaker 6: think of Carson Swessinger and JOK in the same linebacker. Like, what what what is the d way it doesn't I mean, like, they can do everything. Like, it would have been, again, amazing. Now whether they would have taken Schwesinger if JOK was healthy is a different conversation.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Wanna get into so you and I are both from the same place, Erie County, Ohio. And there are a lot of people who ask me all the time, Why are you from where you're from and for Detroit? You actually you're from Sandusky, Ohio, home of Cedar Point. We both worked at Cedar Point, not quite at the same time, but, we did work in the same division together. Yep. So I want you to just, like, how like, give me a rough percentage of how many people in you did you go to Sandusky or Perkins?

Speaker 6: I went to the Catholic school, SMCC. I'm sorry.

Speaker 5: That would be why none of my friends know

Speaker 6: that's correct and it wasn't very good at athletics.

Speaker 5: Okay. But like in that area, what how many percentage of people would you say are Lions fans More than their browns fans or there's a weird amount of Steelers fans in Northeast Ohio too.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I was gonna say, like, that's really where it is. It's it's browns, Steelers, lions. Right? Like, it's it's probably that. So I would say probably

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Speaker 6: 15 to 20% are Steelers. Five to 10 to 15 are are kinda Lions fans mostly because of when I was there. You know, neither neither none of the Browns and the the the Lions weren't very good, in a lot of ways. And so, in a lot of ways, it actually goes back to college. Right? So, up in Northern Ohio, you're still a majority of Buckeyes, obviously, over there. I'm a Buckeye.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 6: But you have that kind of niche of Michigan fans. And so Right. I think there's a lot of connectivity there. Some of that's just rebellion. Right? Like, everybody's Ohio State fan. Let me be a Michigan fan. And so I think there's also that little bit of connection where it's like, well, I like Michigan. I'm gonna be also a Lions fan. So there is kinda overlap there. And then, again, this is where the mental health stuff comes in. The Pistons were really exciting in the eighties. Right? And there there's some of that bad boy nature in nineties and and all of that. And so then it's like, well, they're really exciting, kind of fun, and gritty, and angry, and knocking people out. Oh, I like Detroit Pistons. Let me also kinda navigate towards, you know, even the Tigers. You know, I've got family members who like everything Cleveland except they love the Tigers. And I'm like, why? What? What are we doing?

Speaker 5: Ernie Harwell, man. So you know this. WLEC, shit, 1450 is

Speaker 6: 1450, baby.

Speaker 5: Used to play Tigers games instead of Indians games on the radio when we were growing up in the seventies and eighties.

Speaker 6: Yep. Well, it's it's why for a little while, I was a Braves fan as a kid. TBS, I couldn't see the Indians, so I watched the Braves. I was like, well, that must be my team, I guess, because that's the one that's on the television. So same thing with kind of the radio.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Interesting. And so I I hope that sheds a little bit more light on, like, I'm not a complete weird anomaly from being from Cleveland and rooting for it. But,

Speaker 6: I mean might be, though, like, one thing you and I don't have in common. Right? Growing up in the same area, working at Cedar Point, covering the Browns. Like, Jeff and I often joke, like, I'm four, five, six, seven years behind his process, but followed along it without knowing him. So, and for a while, I had a bug on his computer, and I knew everything he was thinking about writing. It was really a problem thing.

Speaker 5: Knew it. No. Jared. I'm sorry. I'm thinking I'm thinking back to we gotta share the story.

Speaker 6: Oh, jeez.

Speaker 5: Mac Robinson, his first night ever at High Velocity. Mac Robinson now works for the Browns in their, media department. And he was a young buck, and he was working for me at Brownswire at the time, and you were there as well. And it's about 2AM and who strolls in but Bill Belichick. And Bill Belichick is happy, like gregarious smiling, slaps his hand on our table, says, what's up, guys? And Mac, like, basically fainted in his beer. I believe he was under age of time. Mhmm. Just this this is why we're friends. This is why we have so much fun together. Well, I I love that story. And I told Mac that, and I told I told my mom that Mac story with Mac there, and he's like, it's all true.

Speaker 6: It's all true. And it's one of the things I always encourage young media people that, you know, often wanna just get ahead or get in. You gotta be there to get in. Right? Like Yep. You know, it's one of those things, like, if you're anywhere near I mean, Detroit, Cleveland, Ohio, we're not far from Indy. Go. Right? Go. Be around. Right? Like, I mean, you and I have a story about two gentlemen connected to the NFL. We'll use it that way, who on both ends, we get a call. Love love love getting you to process. We get a call at three in the morning. We both do.

Speaker 5: Yeah. That's good.

Speaker 6: I can't find him.

Speaker 5: So that's my equation.

Speaker 6: Is it right? What do you mean you lost him? He went up to the kitchen to get get food. This place doesn't have an upstairs or a kitchen. Oh, and on your end, it's I'm lost wandering around or whatever. Like, those stories

Speaker 5: walking somewhere in Indianapolis that I don't know where I am, and I'm scared to death, and I'm probably too high to walk.

Speaker 6: There's a green door involved with all of that conversation that had been, again, this is where like, again, if you wanna be in the media, you wanna like, some of it's just about being around and having opportunities. Like, I heard about this green door for three years. And all of a sudden, the green door had been found, and I had actually introduced these two human beings to each other. One of them, I didn't even really know. I had introduced them, and all of a sudden, I'm worried, you know, I and at the time, I was told this other person was Obama's opener. That's how he was introduced to me, because of a Sloan Analytics conference.

Speaker 5: That's right.

Speaker 6: And so I was like, did I just cause Obama's opener to get lost? Like, what what did I just do?

Speaker 5: So Yeah. I I I I'm with you. I'll echo that. I strongly encourage like, I will relate a different story. We were I was out with some Internet online draft friends. This is 2015, I wanna say, at the combine. 2014, 2015. And we're at a a microbrewery that's no longer there. And we're sitting at the bar, and we're talking You know me. I talk loud. People can hear my conversations when they're around me. A guy comes over and says, hey, man. I'm Alliance fan. Mind if I hang out with you guys? It was Jim Nagy, who shortly thereafter became the director of the senior role. He's now at Oklahoma. But we developed a relationship that day, and Jim and I are still friends to this day. He will still return my text. Not immediately, but I will get them back. Like, just being there for that sort of action, like, if you can win going in, you don't need to you don't need to press credential. It's better to have one than not, but you don't need one. You can watch the things in in the stadium. We've met you and I independently have met a lot of family members of prospects. They wind up being great fonts for information about their sons and their sons' teammates. Just like that.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And I agree. Like, I think the thing that's different because of me and you versus others is we don't go there to get anything. We go there to be people, right, to be Right. Friendly, to get to know people. Like, now it works, though. Right? You know when you see people who are only there to get connections. And every who is a connection knows it too, and they're like, who's this guy? And I'm like

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Why why is he standing behind me eavesdropping all the time? Has anyone ever heard him talk? Right.

Speaker 6: You know what I mean? I'll be honest. I've had tons of people either I know or I've met, and someone more important, which I'm not important at all, but someone more important runs in and we're in the middle of a conversation, and they leave the conversation because someone important walked in the room that they don't even know. Right? And they're or they come to the table because Ben Albright comes to our table, and he's chatting with us. And all of a sudden because someone knows who Ben Albright is, they wanna come, hey. Hey. Can you introduce me?

Speaker 5: It's Ben.

Speaker 6: It's it's it's Ben.

Speaker 5: We we both like Ben. We get like it's almost a a scourge of, you know, like, we do like Ben. We get along with him. I had fun with Ben. He's he's a good dude. He's he's weird. And I again, I say that endearingly. I I like Ben. He seems to like me. We've hung up quite a bit. So

Speaker 6: Right. And it and, again, all of it's about just being a person. Right? Like, I'd I've been on ESPN set because Matt Miller and I are friends. Right. Right? Like, that Jordan Reed, like, I'm not as close with him, but, like, Jordan, Ben, like, all the people you know, I think that's the awesome thing about sports media is if you care about people and you care about the sport you're covering and have some again, not everyone's as social as you and I, but, like, it does it works. It's just a long term play. If you're planning, listen, if you're trying to speed run, it's not gonna work.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Well, Jared, we'll call it a show on that. Thank you so much for joining me. Tell people where they can find your work in anything that you might be working on. The lion's sheds might have a little interest in.

Speaker 6: Yeah. You can find you know, honestly, you guys have a great guy in Jeremy when when it comes to SB Nation. You know, I'm pride of Detroit. Like, Jeremy is, you know, we're all a little quirky, but, you know, Jeremy, you and I have all hung out. So, you know, obviously, make sure you go over to pride of Detroit. You know, dogs by nature, I think, you know, I think for you guys, it would be more interesting just to kinda see because you guys are, you know, three steps ahead of kinda where we are in our build. You know, I think you really wanna pay attention to some of the veterans we have, like the Denzel Awards of the world, and just kinda hear what we're what's going on. But if you miss it, right, like, I always talk about different, like, stages of development. You guys are in a really what I would consider one of the hard ones. You're not champions, but you're really good. And that but are you good enough to be a champion? Like, sometimes that's a frustrating area. So if you're both in and and want some build

Speaker 5: to the last conversation, Jared. Exactly. Exactly where we're wrapping this offseason.

Speaker 6: So if you're looking for some like, I just want a young team that's building and growing to to to kinda get back to, because that's a fun thing. I love it with the Cavs. Right? I love the Kyrie's and the Tristans and the, you know, the Darius's and the Dion waiters and all that. If you're missing that, come on over. You can have a brown you can be a brown lion fan. We're we're way behind where you guys are, but we're young and building, some really interesting players. So come on over. Dogs by Nature, is the site for SB Nation. Love to see you there.

Speaker 5: Jared, thanks so much. We'll, say goodbye out there. I will, we'll talk, my friend. What? Thanks so much for joining me. Alright. That was Jared Mueller from Dogs by Nature, old friend, fellow Erie County, Ohioan. We'll call it a show on that. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you enjoyed that. If you have questions or anything about that, put them in the comments, put them in the the the DLP Slack. Thank you for liking and subscribing. And, as always, Jeff Risen signing up. Be good to one another, everybody.